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SRI LANKA: No Lessons Learnt From `Black July` of 1983
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Ariyalai_SB Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1582 Member Profile
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31 Jul 2008 06:01:26 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha,
My son interviewed me as part of preparations for his dessertation, and I quate below. This will tell you my take on the matter. I will reply to your post later when time permits.
Q: Do you know anyone who is/was a member of the LTTE?
A: Yes
Q: If yes, what were their reasons for joining?
A:
1. Hopelessness and being treated as aliens in their own county.
2. The perception by the successive governments that all Tamils are potential LTTE members.
3. Fear of persecution
4. Standing up against discrimination
Q: Apart from sharing a country, do you feel that Sinhalese and Tamils have anything in common?
A: There is no hostility from either side towards each others religion. There are Hindu symbols in Buddhist temples. The Sinhala language has over 4000 Tamil words. Many Tamils became as Sinhala and many Sinhalese likewise became as Tamils. I feel that, the peoples have been made to feel as if they have nothing in common rather than celebrating the common heritage together.
Q: I would suggest that in Sri Lanka the main sporting past time is cricket, is this something Tamils and Sinhalese share and do you support the Sri Lankan cricket team?
A: Yes, Cricket is loved by both communities for last 25 years, it has been difficult, as a Tamil, to support the Sri Lankan cricket team. This is so, because, when being alienated and made to feel as a second class citizen, one cannot spontaneously feel connected with Sri Lanka. But, inherent feeling of Sri Lankanness is still strong.
Q: When the country gained independence, the new nation was billed as a nation for everyone, but then the government brought in a Sinhala Only Act which made Sinhalese the official language, what are your opinions on these events? Does it make you feel discriminated against and/or less Sri Lankan?
A: In fact, it was the Language Act, which made the Sinhala language as the official language. This Act deemed the majority of the Tamils and Muslims, who did not have proficiency in Sinhala language, as second class citizens overnight. The language Act was one of many measures that were taken to elevate the Sinhala community over and above the others.
I feel that, instead of making the Sinhala the official language rather short sighted manor, they should have made all Sri Lankans to learn all three languages: Sinhala, Tamil, and English. It is natural for the minorities to learn the majority language by default necessitated by commerce and other factors. However, if a language is thrust upon, the minorities would naturally resist.
Within a unitary governance, with clearly demarcated areas where Tamil speaking peoples are inhabited, as a Tamil, I am naturally feel that am discriminated against when a language is thrust on me without which, I am deemed as not suitable for employment in certain sectors.
Q: What do you think the LTTE offer the Tamil people that the Sri Lankan government has failed or is failing to do provide? In other words, what do you think is the reason behind large degree of support for the LTTE in the Tamil community?
A: In fact, the LTTE cannot offer anything to the Tamils, by way of just governance, while being engaged in war with the government of Sri Lanka. The Tamil community feels that, they have been discriminated against with impunity. They were victims of many state sponsored pogroms loss of life and livelihoods with no action whatsoever taken against the perpetrators. Keeping this in view, the emergence of LTTE, that has been capable of engaging the Government of Sri Lanka militarily and politically, has made the Tamils feel that, someone is standing up. Though the LTTE had killed prominent Tamil politicians in the past, it has now created an environment, in which, the Tamils have no other alternative but supporting them. Because, LTTE is the only hope for them whether, it is true or not, only time will tell.
On the other hand the inability of the Sinhala polity to obtain consensus, among themselves, as to a viable political solution in line with power devolution, and manifesting their will carrying it through, leaving the Tamils with no option other than supporting the LTTE.
Q: Do you think that because the LTTE De Facto State's official language is Tamil e.g. their police force speaks Tamil, that this is the reason for there being so much support for the LTTE?
A: No though, the aim of the LTTE is to create a separate state for Tamils with Tamil being its official language, many Tamils understand that, this aim and the Sinhala only attempt are two sides of a same coin. I do not feel that, majority of the Tamils support the De Facto statehood, but supporting the phenomenon of LTTE hoping that, LTTE can be used as a vehicle in achieving viable power devolution with constitutional guarantees for the minorities within a United Sri Lanka.
Q: Tamils in Sri Lanka can or have been linked to the Tamils of South India- do you feel it is right to link the two or are Sri Lankan Tamils a separate culture, community & nation?
A: I strongly feel that, the Sri Lankan Tamils have their own culture, community, and nationhood that is very different from Tamil Nadu in India. We share language, religion, and many spiritual practices, but there are inherent disconnects with different dialects and social behaviours.
I feel that, the Sri Lankan Tamils must find a way to live with the Sinhalese. The Tamil Nadu Tamils can offer their moral support to this end, but cannot do much more than that. I feel that, this perceived connection is detrimental to the Sri Lankan Tamils rather than beneficial in any way because, the Sinhalese collectively resent this notion.
Q: Chapter 2 Article 9 of the Sri Lankan Constitution states that the 'Republic of Sri Lanka shall give to Buddhism the foremost place' what are your views and feelings about this?
A: I am resentful to this idea. I have no issues with Buddhism being the state religion with 65% of Sri Lankans are Buddhists, but resent that a particular religion is elevated to a superior position. Sri Lanka needs to be a secular state promoting a Sri Lankan identity galvanizing all communities. With this kind of visionless politicized Buddhism and Sinhala Only Act, Sri Lanka has failed to build a nation, and continue to fail because no politician of international repute with vision has emerged thus far.
Q: Could you say that this makes you feel less Sri Lankan?
A: Yes
Q: The national anthem of Sri Lanka is a Sinhalese song, what are your views on this?
A: I feel not connected with Sri Lanka.
Q: Do you have anything else in which you would like to say?
A: I feel that, the inability of the Sinhala polity to formulate and implement a just solution has deemed that LTTE is relevant to the equation. The LTTE cannot feel that they are mandated to carry on when all communities are pulled together with national consensus, power devolution and constitutional guarantees, LTTE would loose their platform on which they could base their ideals. In the absence of such a situation, I feel that, protraction of the conflict is inevitable with no end in sight
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Ariyalai_SB Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1582 Member Profile
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2 Aug 2008 08:53:39 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha,
Sorry for the belated reply, one needs to take time compiling a response to you, though, one is never sure as to how you would interpret.
I asked:
Why do you think that the Sinhalese felt the need to secure themselves?
What possible social and political reasoning that you can give to explain this?
You wrote:
Before anything, let me kindly tell you that this question is wrong and invalid. I, as a Sinhala, do never think that we feel/felt insecure at all. Recognizing the language and the religion of Sinhalas in their due places in the culture of this land is in no way amount to any feeling of lack of security.
I am very sorry to repeat, the 1948 constitution was put together with the consensus of all sections of the Sri Lankan communities. It was billed and subsequently idealised by many up and coming countries that Sri Lanka was the benchmark. Keeping all this view, when one community that being the majority decided to assert itself over and above the other, it would be plainly obvious and inevitable that a type of civil unrest that would follow. Moreover, the ethos of the Sinhala Buddhists wish to be constitutionally made superior cannot be explained in any way other than their inherent insecurity. I asked you to explain this act, but you discounted it as saying that this question is wrong and invalid. I do not have words to comprehend this as I am completely dumbfounded!
Then you asked:
In contrary, why, in your opinion, should Sinhalas feel insecure. Please answer.
There is no need for the Sinhala Buddhists to feel insecure, their religion and language are completely secure, and no harm would fall on them. However, the Champion Sinhala Buddhist revivalist, Anagarigha Dharmapala conjectured that, both Sinhala and Buddhism were at the brink of complete annihilation by hostile foreign powers. This conjecture snowballed and exploded in the 1950s as an unstoppable phenomenon to the bewilderment of the Sinhala political elite. This can be explained as a virtual or perceived insecurity than a real one!
I like to quote an excerpt from Prof. De Votta:
..Buddhists ?deep rooted sense of insecurity? is predictably emphasized, rightly or wrongly, perhaps portraying Sinhala Buddhists as a terrified world minority perpetually quaking at the inevitability of ignominious extinction.
I like to quote you from another LNP thread:
http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2008/7/30899.html
Member of European Parliament envisages converting Tamils to Buddhism
Mr. Niranjan de Silva
Peace prevailed on this island in the past without any Tamil Hindu being converted to Buddhism and v.v. Hindus and Buddhists had no major issues about tolerating each other until European invaders messed it up. Before their arrival, we managed to absorb Hindu God Vishnu into our religion as the next person to become a Samma Sambuddha whereas Hindus absorbed our Gauthama Buddha to their religion as an avatar of God Vishnu. Such is the tolerance that prevailed and the whole concept of conversion remained almost alien to both the religions.
I completely concur with the above quote of yours. Now, please tell me that, when such peace was prevailed, did, at any stage, one religion or one language bestowed supreme over one another? Obviously you think so, please state with evidence and period of such situations.
Edited By - Ariyalai_SB - 2 Aug 2008 08:57:00 GMT |
Mucha-linda Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 4188 Member Profile
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5 Aug 2008 03:40:16 GMT Report for Abuse
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ARIYALAI_SB,
Sorry for the belated reply as I was away from my base during last two days.
Anyway, one good thing about the way you argue is it sanctions me to use your one arguments against another, leaving me no reason to do any further research.
For example, you first said,
the 1948 constitution was put together with the consensus of all sections of the Sri Lankan communities
..to be followed by,
when one community that being the majority decided to assert itself over and above the other, it would be plainly obvious and inevitable that a type of civil unrest that would follow
If that is the case, it is obvious that 1948 Constitution was not something that was put together with the consensus of all sections. As such, it is clear that those who left ignored in 1948 Constitution introduced amendments to it to incorporate their concerns. No wonder why you found yourself dumbfounded. Nevertheless, it spares me answering one question of yours.
You also said,
There is no need for the Sinhala Buddhists to feel insecure, their religion and language are completely secure, and no harm would fall on them. However, the Champion Sinhala Buddhist revivalist, Anagarigha Dharmapala conjectured that, both Sinhala and Buddhism were at the brink of complete annihilation by hostile foreign powers. This conjecture snowballed and exploded in the 1950s as an unstoppable phenomenon to the bewilderment of the Sinhala political elite. This can be explained as a virtual or perceived insecurity than a real one!
ARIYALAI, feeling insecure is one thing, taking measures to rectify a historical unjust is another. What Anagarika Dharmapala (thuma) campaigned for is the latter. It was not a mere feeling. There was a real hard-coded threat and he campaigned against it. It is nowhere near a perceived feeling of insecurity.
Ariyalai, when you are sick, you take medicine. No one would say that you take medicine because you felt insecure. In contrary, anyone would understand that you take medicine because you are sick and because being sick is bad.
Having that clarified, now your argument is that Anagarika Dharmapala thuma opined such a threat when Sinhala language/culture and Buddhism were not at the brink of annihilation (I deliberately omitted the word 'complete' as I am not sure whether he spoke about any possibility of complete annihilation).
Ariyalai, Dharmapala thuma contemplated such a threat because there was such a threat. For example, he campaigned in favour of making Sinhala the language of administration because it was not the language of administration. Sinhala remained the language of administration of this island at least since the times of King Pandukabaya and it was the language understood by the very majority of the people who inhabited this island. Yet, it was kept aside from Administration by British. As such, it was not a matter of responding to any unfounded, perceived threat, but a matter of responding to a real tangible threat.
Similarly, Dharmapala thuma campaigned to revive the Buddhist education in this island because British have systematically annihilated the Buddhist Education system that prevailed on this land for several centuries. He also campaigned among Sinhalas to adopt Sinhala names because Sinhalas, under the influence of Portuguese, Dutch and British started adopting their names. He also initiated the temperance movement because there was visible increment of alcoholism among Sinhalas since the Alcohol Act of 15th of April 1912. Non of these are perceived threats, but tangible threats that had physical existence.
I completely concur with the above quote of yours. Now, please tell me that, when such peace was prevailed, did, at any stage, one religion or one language bestowed supreme over one another? Obviously you think so, please state with evidence and period of such situations.
It is good that you promptly anticipated my answer. As for evidence to that effect, I have a truck load. However, due to practical limitations, let me point out just 2 of those.
The four Nayakkar kings who reigned at Kandy were non-Sinhala speaking non-Sinhala non-Buddhists by birth. Yet, since their respective coronations, they venerated Buddhism, and carried out their administration in Sinhala language in spite of the fact they spoke in Tamil among their consorts and close associated.
British-Sinhale agreement (which is commonly known as Kandyan convention) recognized the foremost place of Buddhism in this island and British pledged to take care of tooth relic by law. If the Buddhism has not enjoyed a foremost place in this island and if it has been recognized vis-a-vis other religions, Kandyan convention should have read British to become the caretaker of all those religions.
Good luck
-Muchalinda
PS: Please make sure to inform me if you post a reply. I am unlikely to visit this thread, unless informed.
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Edited By - Mucha-linda - 5 Aug 2008 06:07:40 GMT |
Ariyalai_SB Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1582 Member Profile
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6 Aug 2008 07:51:28 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha,
Anyway, one good thing about the way you argue is it sanctions me to use your one arguments against another, leaving me no reason to do any further research.
I did not expect anything else from you, as the foundation that you stand on is inherently flimsy!
I said:
the 1948 constitution was put together with the consensus of all sections of the Sri Lankan communities
Yes, I further said:
when one community that being the majority decided to assert itself over and above the other, it would be plainly obvious and inevitable that a type of civil unrest that would follow
You said:
If that is the case, it is obvious that 1948 Constitution was not something that was put together with the consensus of all sections. As such, it is clear that those who left ignored in 1948 Constitution introduced amendments to it to incorporate their concerns. No wonder why you found yourself dumbfounded. Nevertheless, it spares me answering one question of yours.
:) Mucha, you must have had your tongue in your cheek when you wrote this, as it is a blatant disregard of our forefathers who deliberated in independence of the nation. In all seriousness, if anyone got ignored, it would be the minorities at the hands of the insecure majority! It is obvious that your thought process is very ancient and irrelevant to the future of the nation, I am very sorry to say.
The 1948 constitution had handed over the power to the majority within a Westminster style set up it was up to the majority to build a nation, but the Sinhala disunity and greed ruined the nation not any Sinhala Buddhist negligence on the part of the constitution.
You said:
ARIYALAI, feeling insecure is one thing, taking measures to rectify a historical unjust is another. What Anagarika Dharmapala (thuma) campaigned for is the latter. It was not a mere feeling. There was a real hard-coded threat and he campaigned against it. It is nowhere near a perceived feeling of insecurity.
You know very well that both Sinhala/Buddhism and Tamil/Hindu are well entrenched phenomena, and could not have been dislodged by any force. The Tamil Hindu culture and with relatively small population had survived in Sri Lanka completely intact. Many Hindu Tamils including my ancestors got educated through the Christian Missionary schools without converting their religion, and this scenario had been synonymous with all sections of the Tamil society. Was it J.T. Thambaih who said that, the Sinhalese are the majority but with minority complex. I can quote many scholars on this subject, but know that it will be futile with your rational!
Ariyalai, when you are sick, you take medicine. No one would say that you take medicine because you felt insecure. In contrary, anyone would understand that you take medicine because you are sick and because being sick is bad.
Yes, one can take medicine to cure an illness when it is properly diagnosed. But with the phenomenon of the Sinhala Buddhist Insecurity, it was completely conjectured by instilling unnecessary fear into the Sinhala Buddhist community. No cure nor any medicine is forthcoming because there is no diagnosis!
You said on the subject of the Sinhala language and administration of Sri Lanka:
You said:
Ariyalai, Dharmapala thuma contemplated such a threat because there was such a threat. For example, he campaigned in favour of making Sinhala the language of administration because it was not the language of administration. Sinhala remained the language of administration of this island at least since the times of King Pandukabaya and it was the language understood by the very majority of the people who inhabited this island.
Then you further Said:
It is good that you promptly anticipated my answer. As for evidence to that effect, I have a truck load. However, due to practical limitations, let me point out just 2 of those.
Then you quoted two evidences pertinent to the Kandyan Convention:
The four Nayakkar kings who reigned at Kandy were non-Sinhala speaking non-Sinhala non-Buddhists by birth. Yet, since their respective coronations, they venerated Buddhism, and carried out their administration in Sinhala language in spite of the fact they spoke in Tamil among their consorts and close associated.
:D I asked you to give evidence to support the claim that the Sinhala language was at anytime was used to administer the whole Island. You have a truck load of evidences to support this, but came up with the Kandyan examples! Please do not treat me like an idiot! You know very well that, there were three Kingdoms in Sri Lanka when the Portuguese arrived, and certainly the northern and Eastern regions were being administrated in Tamil before the Europeans arrivals. There are no evidences at all, negative in Mahavamsa, that a particular language was used to administer the whole island at a given time. The answer is that there never had been a case like that.
The Kandyian subjects were majority Sinhala, and hence the administration language was Sinhala there is no surprise about that at all.
British-Sinhale agreement (which is commonly known as Kandyan convention) recognized the foremost place of Buddhism in this island and British pledged to take care of tooth relic by law. If the Buddhism has not enjoyed a foremost place in this island and if it has been recognized vis-a-vis other religions, Kandyan convention should have read British to become the caretaker of all those religions.
This is what one Derrick Schokman said:
by Derrick Schokman
Daily News Fri Apr 25 2003
Two further conferences were held at the Audience Hall. One week later Governor Brownrigg received the Ven. Kobbekaduwa Mahanayaka Thera of Malwatte and the Ven. Yatawatte Mahanayaka Thera of Asgiriya. He gave them his personal assurance on behalf of the British Crown that the Sangha would be protected and the temples held sacred.
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The agreement was to protect the Sangha, and there was not any mention that it was in the context of the entire island. This is another conjecture from the part of the Sinhala Nationalists.
I am expecting concrete evidences to prove that, Sinhala and Buddhism ever had been the language and religion of the nation prior to 1956 and 1972 respectively.
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Mucha-linda Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 4188 Member Profile
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7 Aug 2008 03:40:33 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha, you must have had your tongue in your cheek when you wrote this, as it is a blatant disregard of our forefathers who deliberated in independence of the nation.
ARIYALAI_SB,
I have my criticisms about our forefathers who campaigned for independence, even though it is nowhere near a blatant disregard. However, what remains a fact is your second statement (which I quoted earlier) discredits first. If the majority, in your opinion, wanted to implement something which their leaders have shown no interest in when drafting the constitution, it is obvious that the opinion of the majority has not properly been represented in the constitution. As such, if I had my tongue on my cheek, your tongue is unlikely to be anywhere else other than on your cheek.
Was it J.T. Thambaih who said that, the Sinhalese are the majority but with minority complex. I can quote many scholars on this subject, but know that it will be futile with your rational!
ARIYALAI, when you argue with me (to that matter, with any other person) do not try to prove your point by admitting that a particular scholar/s also held an opinion similar to yours, UNLESS you are ready to answer my question on behalf of (or with the help of) that scholar. Any attempt less than this will really make you look childish.
If you can prove that Anagarika Dharmapala thuma felt insecure for no tangible reasons and NOT because of a real threat with the help of J.T. Thambiah, by all means do so. If you cannot, please make sure not to reference such scholars from you next reply onwards.
You know very well that both Sinhala/Buddhism and Tamil/Hindu are well entrenched phenomena, and could not have been dislodged by any force.
No. I do not agree. Have you ever heard of what has happened to the Buddhism in areas like Andra (in India), Indonesia etc.
Yes, one can take medicine to cure an illness when it is properly diagnosed. But with the phenomenon of the Sinhala Buddhist Insecurity, it was completely conjectured by instilling unnecessary fear into the Sinhala Buddhist community. No cure nor any medicine is forthcoming because there is no diagnosis!
It appears that you have some issues understanding similes. My analogy had nothing to do with diagnosis whatsoever. If you cannot see the analogy, forget it.
I asked you to give evidence to support the claim that the Sinhala language was at anytime was used to administer the whole Island. You have a truck load of evidences to support this, but came up with the Kandyan examples! Please do not treat me like an idiot!
Nope. I do not treat you like an idiot. I just treated you like someone who has the potential to become an idiot!! (humour intended :)
You know very well that, there were three Kingdoms in Sri Lanka when the Portuguese arrived, and certainly the northern and Eastern regions were being administrated in Tamil before the Europeans arrivals.
No. I don't know this. Seriously, I was under the impression that there were FIVE kingdoms at the arrival of Portuguese. This is what Farther Fernao De Queyroz who was with Portuguese during their arrival, wrote in his sixteenth century work *The Temporal and Spiritual Conquest of Ceylon*.
when we first came to that island (i.e.,Ceylon) it was divided into five kingdoms, that of Cota, Emperor, to which all the others were tributory acknowledging that king as that of Raygam and of Seytavaca (Sitavaka) states which he of Cota divided with his brothers that of Candea and that of Jafanapatao (p.32)
You further said,
There are no evidences at all, negative in Mahavamsa, that a particular language was used to administer the whole island at a given time.
ARIYALAI, first of all, your above statement is wrong since English has once been used as the language of administration across the entire island. Nevertheless, what all the existing archaeological evidence, historical accounts, chronicles etc pointing towards is the fact that Sinhala has been used as the language of communication throughout the island since antiquity except in Arya Chakrawarthi kingdom that lasted 200 years in peninsular Jaffna (in addition to all the other invasions from Sena and Guttika to British).
The agreement was to protect the Sangha, and there was not any mention that it was in the context of the entire island. This is another conjecture from the part of the Sinhala Nationalists.
Ariyalai, the convention reached between nobles of Sinhale and Lt. Gen. Robert Brownrigg was signed and enacted to cover the entire island. By article five of that convention, British pledged to protect Buddhism. I have no intention to clarify such trivial facts any further and if you have any doubts, please find a copy of that convention and get it verified yourself.
-Muchalinda
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Edited By - Mucha-linda - 7 Aug 2008 03:47:03 GMT |
Ariyalai_SB Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1582 Member Profile
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7 Aug 2008 10:04:49 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha,
Let me deal with the Kandyan Convention first, and then I will write about Anagariga Dharmapala. Just one comment before I write about the Convention, if Anagariga Dharmapala is revered for standing up to uphold Sinhala and Buddhism, and why not the Tamils say here, here to SJVC! How come SJVC was a racist and Dharmapala was not?
On the Kandyan Convention, you said:
Ariyalai, the convention reached between nobles of Sinhale and Lt. Gen. Robert Brownrigg was signed and enacted to cover the entire island. By article five of that convention, British pledged to protect Buddhism. I have no intention to clarify such trivial facts any further and if you have any doubts, please find a copy of that convention and get it verified yourself.
Mucha, I am not surprised as to why you are reluctant to come up with facts about the Kandyan Convention, as the Kandyan Kingdom was won over and got annexed to British Crown as a separate entity independent of other administrations within the island.
Please see the excepts from an article about the Colebrooke-Cameron Reforms:
http://www.country-studies.com/sri-lanka/the-colebrooke-cameron-reforms.html
The Colebrooke-Cameron Reforms
The commission worked to end the protested administrative division of the country along ethnic and cultural lines into lowcountry Sinhalese, Kandyan Sinhalese, and Tamil areas. The commission proposed instead that the country be put under one uniform administrative system, which was to be divided into five provinces. Colebrooke believed that in the past, separate administrative systems had encouraged social and cultural divisions, and that the first step toward the creation of a modern nation was the administrative unification of the country. Cameron applied the same principle to the judicial system, which he proposed be unified into one system and be extended to all classes of people, offering everyone equal rights in the eyes of the law. His recommendations were adopted and enforced under the Charter of Justice in 1833.
This shows that, when the Kandyan Convention was sighed by the British Governor and the Sinhala Chieftains within the Kandyan Kingdom, the island was being administrated along the racial lines as they were when the Portuguese captured the kingdoms.
You need to ask yourself one simple question: how an earth the Kandyan Chieftains could sign a convention implicating the entire island when they never had any jurisdiction over the areas outside the Kandyan Kingdom!
This is one hell of a conjecture that is to say that the Kandyan Convention was intended for the whole island!
Let me quote from the Island Magazine:
http://www.island.lk/2008/03/01/satmag2.html
Saturday Magazine
The cost of the Kandyan Convention
by Walter Wijenayake
1. Sri Wickrema Rajasinghe, the Malabari king, to forfeit all claims to the throne of Kandy.
2. The king is declared fallen and deposed and hereditary claim of his dynasty, abolished and extinguished.
3. All his male relatives are banished from the island.
4. The dominion is vested in the sovereign of the British empire, to be exercised through colonial Governors, except in the case of the Adikarams, Dissaves, Mohottalas, Korales, Vidanes and other subordinate officers reserving the rights, privileges and powers within their respective ranks.
5. The religion of the Buddha is declared inviolable and its rights to be maintained and protected.
6. All forms of physical torture and mutilations are abolished.
7. The Governor alone can sentence a person to death and all capital punishments to take place in the presence of accredited agents of the government.
8. All civil and criminal justice over Kandyan region to be administered according to the established norms and customs of the country, the government reserving to itself the rights of interposition when and where necessary.
9. Over non-Kandyans the position to remain according to British law.
10. The proclamation annexing the three and four Korales and Sabaragamuwa is repealed.
11. The dues and revenues to be collected for the King of England as well as for the maintenance of internal establishments in the island.
12. The Government alone would facilitate trade and commerce.
Mucha, the clause 4 states: The dominion is vested in the sovereign of the British empire , the word dominion explicitly and unequivocally referred to the Kandyan Kingdom not the entire island, as the rest of the areas had already been annexed.
Mucha, the clause 9 states, that Over non-Kandyans the position to remain according to Brirish law . This along with by virtue that, it was a Convention signed at the fall of the Kandyan Kingdom depicts that, the Convention was intended to apply only to the Kingdom of Kandy and the Kandyans.
Until the Colebrooke-Cameron Reforms took effect on the in 1833, the island was administrated along the lines of the following: lowcountry Sinhalese, Kandyan Sinhalese, and Tamil areas.
I have given you authenticable evidences to assert that the Kandyan Convention was signed and intended to apply only for the Kandyan Kingdom only, and not to the entire island. I would like you to kindly withdraw your claim that, it was intended for the whole island.
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Mucha-linda Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 4188 Member Profile
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8 Aug 2008 04:24:19 GMT Report for Abuse
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ARIYALAI_SB
if Anagariga Dharmapala is revered for standing up to uphold Sinhala and Buddhism, and why not the Tamils say here, here to SJVC! How come SJVC was a racist and Dharmapala was not?
That is quite simple. The criterion of one becoming a racist is not necessarily upholding his/ her race and/or religion. One needs to fulfil certain other conditions to become a racist. Dharmapala thuma uphold Sinhala and Buddhism on facts whereas racist Chelvanayakam uphold Tamil based on myths. That made the difference. If you want, by all means go ahead and challenge it.
However, please do mind that I am not much interested about arguing on these labels as it serves no useful purpose among two individuals like us. If you think Dharmapala thuma is a racist, feel free to call him a racist since it is not going to make any difference.
This shows that, when the Kandyan Convention was sighed by the British Governor and the Sinhala Chieftains within the Kandyan Kingdom, the island was being administrated along the racial lines as they were when the Portuguese captured the kingdoms.... Until the Colebrooke-Cameron Reforms took effect on the in 1833, the island was administrated along the lines of the following: lowcountry Sinhalese, Kandyan Sinhalese, and Tamil areas.
It is amazing how you are trying to bank on facts I have never contested. Did I ever say/intend that European invaders administered the areas under their control as a single entity since their take over. In any event, it is wrong to say that administrational divisions they had were based solely on racial divisions. In other words, it is not a case where they appointed a one governor to oversee all Sinhala areas and another to administer all the areas inhabited by Tamils. If you insist, you may explain why Dutch had three provincial governors for the territories of Colombo, Jaffna and Trincomalee.
You need to ask yourself one simple question: how an earth the Kandyan Chieftains could sign a convention implicating the entire island when they never had any jurisdiction over the areas outside the Kandyan Kingdom!
I know you are not good at understanding analogies. But, at least try to understand this simile. Okinawa, an exclusive territory of Japan, was invaded and overran by US forces few months before the complete surrender of Japan in WWII. Yet, when Japanese Prime Minister signed the Japanese Instrument of Surrender on board USS Missouri on 02/09/1945, it did not mean to cover only the areas remained under Japanese control, but the entire Japanese empire, including Okinawa Perfecture, which by then was under the jurisdiction of The US. Hope you will see the parallels this time (fingers crossed).
Mucha, the clause 4 states: The dominion is vested in the sovereign of the British empire , the word dominion explicitly and unequivocally referred to the Kandyan Kingdom not the entire island, as the rest of the areas had already been annexed.
ARIYALAI, you are utterly confused. The term dominion means a British Overseas Territory. British did not have TWO Overseas Territories on this island, but ONE. Clause 4 stands to undertake the implementation of an overseas territory under the sovereign of the British Empire.
Mucha, the clause 9 states, that Over non-Kandyans the position to remain according to Brirish law . This along with by virtue that, it was a Convention signed at the fall of the Kandyan Kingdom depicts that, the Convention was intended to apply only to the Kingdom of Kandy and the Kandyans.
ARIYALAI, this must be the clause which made it really ugly for people like you. Why on earth should British pledge with Sinhala Chieftains about the jurisdiction that applies to non-Kandyans, if they remained outside the rule of those Kandyan chieftains. PLEASE EXPLAIN!!
Good Luck.
-Muchalinda
PS: See you Monday. Have a great weekend.
Edited By - Mucha-linda - 8 Aug 2008 04:46:13 GMT |
Ariyalai_SB Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1582 Member Profile
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11 Aug 2008 08:00:05 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha,
That is quite simple. The criterion of one becoming a racist is not necessarily upholding his/ her race and/or religion.
Not at all, I agree with you completely, however, if one were to undermine other races or religions by creating a condition by which one race is deemed as super-ordinates and the others are deemed as sub-ordinates, it qualifies for racism. This is what has happened in Sri Lanka, and Dharmapala laid foundations knowingly what he was up to!
One needs to fulfil certain other conditions to become a racist. Dharmapala thuma uphold Sinhala and Buddhism on facts whereas racist Chelvanayakam uphold Tamil based on myths.
:D Mucha, so, Dharmapala was a racist based on facts and a SJVC was a racist based on myth! SJVC was trying to protect the Tamil interests and he never wanted the Tamils to be superior to any other, and this is a fact!
That made the difference. If you want, by all means go ahead and challenge it.
Yes, I am challenging it starting with the Kandyan Convention and its falsified importance! Of course, I am challenging this by telling you that, Mahavamsa is not a history of entire Sri Lanka but a document cantered around the Mahavihara in the Anurathepura.
However, please do mind that I am not much interested about arguing on these labels as it serves no useful purpose among two individuals like us. If you think Dharmapala thuma is a racist, feel free to call him a racist since it is not going to make any difference.
Quite agree, if one wants to be racist it s his/her personal choice, but if that affects another person it s a different matter. Dharmapala was his own man, and his views were explicit and that is fine, but if a government were to uphold such views, then it is another matter all together!
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Ariyalai_SB Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 1582 Member Profile
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11 Aug 2008 09:14:25 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha,
I said:
This shows that, when the Kandyan Convention was sighed by the British Governor and the Sinhala Chieftains within the Kandyan Kingdom, the island was being administrated along the racial lines as they were when the Portuguese captured the kingdoms.... Until the Colebrooke-Cameron Reforms took effect on the in 1833, the island was administrated along the lines of the following: lowcountry Sinhalese, Kandyan Sinhalese, and Tamil areas.
I said this to highlight that, the Kandyan Convention was signed in 1815, but the Colebrooke-Cameron reforms did not take effect until 1833. This fact shows that, the Kandyan Kingdom was being administrated separately, this is the point! So the clause 9 of the Convention: Over non-Kandyans the position to remain according to British law states that, the Convention did not apply to other areas. This, you need accept unreservedly.
I said:
You need to ask yourself one simple question: how an earth the Kandyan Chieftains could sign a convention implicating the entire island when they never had any jurisdiction over the areas outside the Kandyan Kingdom!
You said:
I know you are not good at understanding analogies.
:))) Well, I have problems understanding your analogies! But, will not allow you to confuse me, as it appears that is your intention!
You further said:
But, at least try to understand this simile. Okinawa, an exclusive territory of Japan, was invaded and overran by US forces few months before the complete surrender of Japan in WWII. Yet, when Japanese Prime Minister signed the Japanese Instrument of Surrender on board USS Missouri on 02/09/1945, it did not mean to cover only the areas remained under Japanese control, but the entire Japanese empire, including Okinawa Perfecture, which by then was under the jurisdiction of The US. Hope you will see the parallels this time (fingers crossed).
Please show me or point me to an instance when the Sri Lanka proper was being ruled by a Kandyan King in total. Did Kandy ever rule the entire Sri Lanka? Please answer without quoting any nonsense.
I said:
Mucha, the clause 4 states: The dominion is vested in the sovereign of the British empire , the word dominion explicitly and unequivocally referred to the Kandyan Kingdom not the entire island, as the rest of the areas had already been annexed.
You said:
ARIYALAI, you are utterly confused. The term dominion means a British Overseas Territory. British did not have TWO Overseas Territories on this island, but ONE. Clause 4 stands to undertake the implementation of an overseas territory under the sovereign of the British Empire.
Please, if anyone is confused, it is you! The term DOMINION meant in the context of clause 4, Kandyan Convention, the Kandyan Kingdom, and not anywhere else. This is a conjecture on the part of the Sinhala Buddhist nationalists to link the Convention to the Ceylon proper.
Please, try to comprehend that, the convention was signed at the fall of the Kandyan Kingdom. It was made between the British and the Kandyan Chieftains, and no other party was involved including the Buddhist establishments of the Anuratherpura etc.
I said:
Mucha, the clause 9 states, that Over non-Kandyans the position to remain according to Brirish law . This along with by virtue that, it was a Convention signed at the fall of the Kandyan Kingdom depicts that, the Convention was intended to apply only to the Kingdom of Kandy and the Kandyans.
You said:
ARIYALAI, this must be the clause which made it really ugly for people like you. Why on earth should British pledge with Sinhala Chieftains about the jurisdiction that applies to non-Kandyans, if they remained outside the rule of those Kandyan chieftains. PLEASE EXPLAIN!!
You got it! It is exactly my point! Then, I do not know as to what do you want me to explain Mucha? Who were the signatories to the Convention? The British and the Kandyan Chieftains, don t you agree? Please see below:
British
Robert Brownrigg
John D'oyly
Jas. Surtherland
Kandyan Radalas (Kandyan Chieftain)
Ehelepola Nilame
Molligoda - 1st (Maha) Adikar & Dissawa of the Sath (Seven) Korles
Pilima Talawuwe - 2nd Adikar & Dissawa of Sabaragamuwa
Pilima Talawuwe - Dissawa of Hathra (Four) Korles
Monarawila - Dissawa of Uva
Ratwatte - Dissawa of Mataele
Molligoda - Dissawa of Thun (Three) Korles
Dulleywe - Dissawa of Wellasse and Binteynne
Galagama - Dissawa of Tamankada
Galagoda - Dissawa of Nuwara Kalawiya
I conclude, the Kandyan Convention was meant for the Kandyan Kingdom, and it did not govern the rest of Ceylon, and it was explicit in clause 9.
Now, going back to my original question, please point me to any evidence to prove that, Sri Lanka at any time was governed by one religion and one language. As you said before, peace prevailed in the island between the Sinhala and Tamils because both tolerated each other, and moreover, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sinhala, and Tamil were in practice through out the country until the 12th century AD when distinct groups were formed owing to external factors etc.
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