| | A message of love for the Kafirs (^) Thursday, 13 November 2008 - 2:35 PM SL Time | | |
The Crucifix
Dr. John S Hislop was one of those fine instruments used by Bhagavan Baba to spread His Message across the continents. Most of you might have read his wonderful books like `My Baba and I` and `Conversations with Sai.` Swami gave Hislop innumerable experiences so that the latter could get a feel for all aspects of Baba`s Divinity. Baba also granted Hislop any number of Interviews, answered his questions in detail, came to his rescue during illness, saved him from disaster, created unusual objects for him and once even blessed him with a vision of Krishna. But relevant to this Christmas issue of Heart to Heart is the famous episode dealing with the creation by Baba of a crucifix for Hislop. Interestingly, the crucifix was created on Mahasivarathri Day in the year 1973, deep in the forest! This holy festival was celebrated by Baba in the company of a small group almost in privacy, and not before massive crowds as normally happens. Let us hear Hislop recall the event:
The crucifix was created by Baba on a most auspicious day, Mahasivarathri. The evening before, we were told to be ready in the early morning for a trip and that when the cars were loaded and ready we would know the destination. Swami had decided that only a handful of people would be with Him .
Our destination was the Bandipur Game Sanctuary in Bandipur Forest, several hours away from the city of Mysore. We arrived at the Forest rest house in the early afternoon. Later we took various winding roads hoping to come upon one of the Forest`s wild elephant herds. .. the elephants remained in their secret places and not even one was seen. But the drive through the hills had another and more important objective
As we crossed a bridge above a sandy, dry riverbed, Baba indicated that this would be the place. The cars halted at the side of the road, and we started to climb down the bank to the sandy river bottom. I was beside Baba. As we passed a bush, Swami broke off two twigs, placed them together and asked me, `What is this, Hislop?`
`Well Swami, it is a cross,` I answered. Baba then closed His fingers over the twigs and directed three somewhat slow breaths into His fist, between thumb and forefinger. Then He opened His hand to reveal a Christ figure on a Cross, and He gave it to me.
He said, `This shows Christ as he really was at the time he left his body, not as artists have imagined him. His stomach is pulled in and his ribs are all showing. He had no food for eight days.`
I looked at the crucifix but found no words. Baba then continued: `The wood in the cross is the same as the wood of the actual cross on which Christ was crucified. To find some of that wood after 2000 years took a little time! The image is of Christ after he died. It is a dead face.`
I noticed something odd and asked, `Swami, what is that hole at the top of the cross?` Baba replied that the cross had been originally hung from a standard.
A short while after the materialisation of the cross, Sivarathri was celebrated on the sandy river bed with devotees singing Bhajans and Baba bringing out a Lingam to mark the holy day and the significance of Creation - quite a change from the normal circumstances under which Sivarathri is celebrated.
A couple of years later, some American devotees asked Swami about the cross materialised for Hislop. Baba replied:
Yes, I made it for him. When I went to look for the wood, every particle of the cross had disintegrated and returned to the elements. I reached out to the elements and reconstituted sufficient material for a small cross. Very seldom does Swami interfere with Nature, but occasionally, for a devotee, it will be done.`
The story of the cross does not quite end with its physical materialisation. Hislop had a strange experience a few months later, when the cross was being shown to a few friends. This is what he says:
Within a few weeks we were back in our home in Mexico and were soon to witness an amazing series of events in relation to the crucifix. .. [One day] the time was about 5 P.M. On this afternoon, the sky along the Mexican coast was clear and peaceful. But suddenly without warning, there was a loud crash of thunder and as our eyes turned towards the windows, lightning flashed from a dark cloud where a moment before there had been only clear sky. A violent wind rushed through the house, causing windows and doors to open and shut with such force that the glass was in danger of shattering. The curtains were flying in all directions. We were much startled by this turn of events, but my wife at once said, `It is 5 P.M., the time Christ died on the cross, and what is now happening is described in the Bible.` She later brought a Bible and we looked though until we found the pertinent paragraph, which said that at the moment Christ gave up His life, a violent storm arose with lightning and thunder, and winds rent the curtains of the temple. We concluded that we had witnessed a wonder totally beyond our power of imagination. Before our eyes had occurred nothing less than a recapitulation of events related to crucifixion. The following day, newspapers in San Diego carried a brief story commenting on the sudden and mysterious storm that had arisen without warning on the Mexican coast, near Ensenada. .A year or so later, I sent a description of the event to Dr. Eruch B. Fanibanda for his book, Vision of the Divine. He showed the memo to Baba. After reading the memo, Baba said that the event had occurred as described and that the significance attributed to it was correct.
Blessed was Hislop to have had this wonderful experience and blessed is everyone of us to have heard about it.
Hislop constantly chanted Baba`s Name, right till the very end. As he gave up the mortal coil, friends at his bedside kept chanting the sacred OM, even as the soul journeyed to its eternal resting-place, the Divine Lotus Feet. Some time later, Swami asked an American devotee on the veranda, `Where is Hislop?` The devotee looked up, as if to signify that Hislop was in heaven. Baba then said, `He has come to Me. Good man always thinking of and working for Swami.` There cannot be a better eulogy.
Excerpts from the book `My Baba & I` by Dr. John S. Hislop
The crucifix was created by Baba on a most auspicious day, Mahasivaratri. Baba had reached a decision to halt the yearly public viewing of the birth of the lingam as it flashes from his mouth and comes to rest in his hands, cushioned by a silk handkerchief. Although that public portion of the holy festival of Mahasivaratri was now terminated nevertheless the lingam would be created by Baba each year again and again, for it is a principal sign by which we may know the Avatar. In respect to the oval, egg-shaped lingam which Baba produces from within his body on Mahasivaratri night, he says, `It is not possible for you to understand the divine purpose and gauge its potential or to know the significance of its manifestation. In order to bear witness to the fact that Divinity is among you, it becomes necessary for me to express this attitude of mine. Otherwise the atmosphere of hatred, greed, envy, cruelty, violence, and irreverence will overwhelm the good, the humble, and the pious. The lingam is a symbol of the beginningless and endless, of the infinite it is the most fitting symbol of the Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent Lord. Everything starts from it and everything is subsumed in it.`
We may also know the Avatar by the sixteen signs that accompany him: creation, preservation, dissolution, knowledge of incarnations, special Grace and the power to bestow it each of these in the past, present, and future, thus totaling fifteen, with the sixteenth being Paramatma, the Divine, resident in the heart of each being. To these sixteen signs of the divine incarnation of the Avatar, Baba adds another sign, which he terms the most significant of all - divine love, universal and impersonal, yet personal. The lingam has been seen by the writer a number of times. On the occasion of one Mahasivarathi night, I was sitting quite close to Baba. When the moment came, I saw a flash of gold come from his mouth and saw the lingam caught in the silk handkerchief held by his hands. It was of gold. How an object that size came up Sri Baba`s throat cannot be explained. At another Mahasivaratri, the lingam was translucent, and there was a clearly visible flame in the center of the lingam.
The evening before the Mahasivaratri Day of 1973, we were told to be ready in the early morning for a trip and that when the cars were loaded and ready we would know the destination. Swami had decided that only a handful of people would be with him when the lingam became manifest.
Our destination was the Bandipur Game Sanctuary in Bandipur Forest, several hours away in Mysore State. We arrived at the Forest resthouse in the early afternoon. The next morning we returned to our cars, and, guided by the Forest people, took various winding roads hoping to come upon one of the Forest`s wild elephant herds. As we moved through the trees and the open areas, in our minds we were hoping for a replay of the dramatic and fascinating encounter between Baba and a wild elephant herd which had taken place some years before when Swami and some devotees had made a holiday expedition to the Game Sanctuary. This time, however, the elephants remained in their secret places and not even one was seen. But the drive through the hills had another and more important objective. Swami intended to find a correct site where we could gather at dusk for the sacred event of the lingam birth. It was on this great and most mysterious occasion, unknown and beyond imagination to the world at large, that the crucifix came into being.
As we crossed a bridge above a sandy, dry riverbed, Baba indicated that this would be the place. He said we would all return here just at dusk, and this we did. The cars halted at the... |
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Aani Senior Member
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13 Nov 2008 08:38:10 GMT Report for Abuse
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As we crossed a bridge above a sandy, dry riverbed, Baba indicated that this would be the place. He said we would all return here just at dusk, and this we did. The cars halted at the side of the road, and we started to climb down the bank to the sandy river bottom. I was beside Baba. As we passed a bush, Swami broke off two twigs, placed them together and asked me, 'What is this, Hislop?'
'Well, Swami, it is a cross,' I answered. Baba then closed his fingers over the twigs and directed three somewhat slow breaths into his fist, between thumb and forefinger. Then he opened his hand to reveal a Christ figure crucified on a cross, and he gave it to me.
He said, 'This shows Christ as he really was at the time he left his body, not as artists have imagined him or as historians have told about him. His stomach is pulled in and his ribs are all showing. He had no food for eight days.'
I looked at the crucifix, but found no words. Then Baba continued, 'The cross is wood from the actual cross on which Christ was crucified. To find some of the wood after 2,000 years took a little time! The image is of Christ after he died. It is a dead face.'
I noticed something odd and asked, 'Swami, what is that hole at the top of the cross?' Baba replied that the cross had been originally hung from a standard.
We continued down to the river bed, and Baba seated us in a rectangle, with himself at the head. It could be seen that Swami's body was already in labor, and the group at once started singing bhajans (sacred songs of devotion and praise to Divinity). This continued without interruption until the lingam came out from Baba's throat and was caught by him in a silk handkerchief. After the lingam had been admired by everyone, Swami put it aside. He then raised a small heap of sand in front of his knees, and with his finger sketched an outline on it. Then in a moment or two, he dug his hand into the sand and brought forth a silver flask filled with amrith. Then he moved his hand and created a small silver cup. Everyone, from his hand, was then given a portion of the amrith, nectar of the Gods. How delicate and delicious was the taste! It is unique. There is no other taste to compare to it.
Within a few weeks we were back at our home in Mexico and were soon to witness an amazing series of events in relation to the crucifix. The cross is so small that the details on the figure of Christ escape the eye. A friend, Walter, came down to our home and took some color photographs of the crucifix. The over-all length of the Christ figure is only one inch, and Walter was to make some enlargements to bring out the detail. When he mailed us a sample of the prints, my wife and I were astounded. I wrote to him and said that if the pictures were seen around the world, they would create an art sensation. I am sure it is the greatest sculpture of Christ every made. In my estimation, it is the most extraordinary object Sri Sathya Sai has ever created for the joy of his devotees.
A few weeks later, Walter and his wife returned with color enlargements of the cross. These, along with the actual cross, were spread out on the dining room table, next to large french windows overlooking the sea. The time was about 5 p.m. The details revealed by the photographic enlargements were so extraordinary that all persons present were concentrating on this amazing vision of Christ, and on the mystery and wonder of Sri Bhagavan. On this afternoon, the sky along the Mexican coast was clear and peaceful but suddenly, without any warning, there was a loud crash of thunder and as our eyes turned to the windows, lightning flashed from a dark cloud where a moment before there had been only clear sky. A violent wind rushed through the house, causing windows and doors to open and shut with such force that glass was in danger of shattering. The curtains were flying in all directions. We were much startled by this turn of events, but my wife at once, said, 'It is 5 p.m., the time Christ died on the cross, and what is now happening is described in the Bible.' She later brought a Bible and we looked until we found the pertinent paragraph, which said that at the moment Christ gave up His life, a violent storm arose with lightning and thunder, and winds rent the curtains of the temple. We concluded that we had witnessed a wonder totally beyond our power of imagination. Before our eyes had occurred nothing less than a recapitulation of events related to the crucifixion. The following day newspapers in San Diego carried a brief story commenting on the sudden and mysterious storm that had arisen without warning on the Mexican coast, near Ensenada. We and our friends concluded that this recapitulation of an event which had taken place some 2,000 years ago upon the crucifixion of Christ, implied a great Power connected in some way with that small cross and Christ figure materialized by Baba. A Year or so later I sent a description of the event to Dr. Eruch B. Fanibunda for his book, Vision of the Divine. He showed the memo to Baba. After reading the memo, Baba said the event had occurred as described and that the significance attributed to it was correct.
It might be thought that the story of the cross was now complete, but there is still a sequel. In 1975, I made an unannounced trip to India to consult with Baba about arrangements for a visit to America that we hoped he would undertake. Swami had not been informed of my visit and was away on tour when I arrived. On that day he was having lunch with a few senior devotees and he said, 'Hislop arrived in Bangalore just now and is waiting.'
One of the men at the table (who later told me of the scene) remarked, 'You made a crucifix for him.'
Baba replied, 'Yes, I made it for him. And when I went to look for the wood, every particle of the cross had disintegrated and had returned to the elements. I reached out to the elements and reconstituted sufficient material for a small cross. Very seldom does Swami interfere with Nature, but occasionally, for a devotee, it will be done.'
Edited By - Aani - 13 Nov 2008 08:38:58 GMT |
Aani Senior Member
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13 Nov 2008 08:43:00 GMT Report for Abuse
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Dr. John S Hislop was one of the fine instruments used by Bhagavan Baba to spread His Message across the continents. Hislop to Swami came via the Theosophy/Meditation route. It all started when as a young man of eighteen he had gone to Taihiti in the Pacific in search of adventure. There he met a priest who told him about Theosophy. As soon as Hislop returned to Los Angeles, he joined the Theosophical Society because he wanted to serve humanity. Soon he became actively involved with the establishment set up in Ojai, California, by Dr. Annie Besant, a pillar of the Theosophy movement.
It was in Ojai that Hislop came into contact with J.Krishnamurthi (from India) who was being projected by Annie Besant as a World Teacher . About this experience, Hislop says, Krishnamurthi and Besant were giant figures who filled the horizon, and it seemed to me that they and only they had found the truth of life. I feel eternally grateful to Dr. Besant and Krishnamurthi for their great kindness and great patience with an undisciplined man. But wisdom was not born in me as a follower of Krishnamurthi.
In between, Hislop went through higher education, finally receiving his doctorate in the School of Education in the University of California, Los Angeles Campus (UCLA). Thereafter he taught for a while and later switched to business, where he was quite successful. He also got married to Victoria, who shared his passion for philosophical enlightenment. Together, Hislop and Victoria drifted from one Guru to another, ending up in the fifties with Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who by then had hit the headlines in the West. Twenty five years of search for that something had passed but that something was still not in sight.
The year is 1958. Hislop comes to India to help Mahesh Yogi in setting up an Academy for Meditation in the Himalayas. Being an American, he is at first mistaken to be a CIA agent (!) but later allowed to do his work. At this stage Hislop takes a break and goes to Burma to learn Vipassana Meditation practised by Buddhists. Hislop finds that the Buddhist style of meditation is fascinating and wonderful but, in his words,
The Buddhist way was a way of the intellect and the mind. And despite my great appreciation and gratitude for having found the discipline, I felt that my heart was dry it was a Western heart with very little love left in it. We (Hislop and his wife) had begun to realise that the Vipassana discipline could be dangerous for a life in the world and that to pursue it properly one should become a monk ..
Around this time, Burma had begun to look inwards, closing its borders to foreigners. So, it did not seem possible to stay back in Burma and become a monk. Yet, Hislop clung to Vipassana, lacking an alternative. A few more years passed, and then .
My wife and I first heard of Baba in 1968 through a description of Him given to a friend of mine by a lady who had visited India. She had brought back some sacred ash (Vibhuti), a beautiful ring as a gift to her from the miraculous nature of Baba, and she had many fascinating stories to tell. One special remark struck fire. The lady said that she felt a change in her character while with Baba, and the change persisted even after she returned home. This statement had a strong impact on my mind. Could there be a man, was there a man living today whose being was so subtle, so powerful, so mysterious, so Divine, that He could change a human Heart?
If it were indeed true that such a man lived in today s world, then nothing else in my life could equal the urgency of seeking Him out. I prayed that through His Grace and kindness, He might touch my dry Heart and make it alive and vibrant.
My wife and I heard the story of Baba on a Monday, and the same week we were aboard a plane to India. .
Hislop continues:
Upon meeting Baba, I knew at once, without doubt, that for me, here was the true source of Wisdom. .It is difficult and probably impossible to express in words the effect upon myself of that first meeting with Baba. My entire being was profoundly affected and changed. Immediately, Baba became the centre of my life, and has remained so. In His presence at that first meeting, the world fell away from me, my entire consciousness was drawn inward and, at a most subtle level of awareness, Baba appeared in my Heart as Love. Love was unmistakable and that Baba was this Love was equally unmistakable. It seemed to me that only God Himself could enter my Heart as Love and, since then, this feeling of Divine Presence has never changed. I found to my great surprise that although I had always used an intellectual approach to spiritual life, the devotional path became very natural to me as soon as I encountered Baba.
Swami gave Hislop innumerable experiences so that the latter could get a feel for all aspects of Divinity. Baba also granted Hislop any number of Interviews, answered his questions in detail, came to his rescue during illness, saved him from disaster, created unusual objects for him and once even blessed him with a vision of Krishna. A sample now of a few these, in Hislop s own words. We start with the famous episode dealing with the creation by Baba of a crucifix for Hislop. Interestingly, the crucifix was created on Mahasivarathri Day in the year 1973, deep in the forest! This holy festival was celebrated by Baba in the company of a small group almost in privacy, and not before massive crowds as normally happens.
Edited By - Aani - 13 Nov 2008 08:45:26 GMT |
Velir Senior Member
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13 Nov 2008 08:43:09 GMT Report for Abuse
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Man..........
making a crucifix out of the exact same wood jesus was crucified..amongst other things...Aani....i can understand if you want to believe these stuff..but i was not expecting this
i was expecting more along the lines of quantifiable and qualifying proof.
(im one of the khaffirs:P ,and Kural is too i think :P)
Ps: the fist post is repeated Edited By - Velir - 13 Nov 2008 08:52:13 GMT |
Aani Senior Member
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13 Nov 2008 08:54:33 GMT Report for Abuse
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Dr. Hislop has a doctorate from UCLA.
You are prepared to call VP 'Sir' and believe in all the crap about the Western nations being prepared to recognise Tamil Eelam (In spite of mounting number of countries banning them) and that the final war is on.
I would rather believe the good doctor from UCLA.
The ones who endorse Sai's message include nuclear scientists, eminent physicians, powerful politicians and successful businessmen.
Anyone can put out videos using body doubles and so on. I would rather believe the above mentioned category than Velir, SKB, Kural and co. How many of you have a degree from UCLA? How many of you have a doctorate?
No offence. Love you all:)) |
Aani Senior Member
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13 Nov 2008 08:58:54 GMT Report for Abuse
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Ps: the fist post is repeated
Where? Read properly:))
Also watch the video please - where is your Vibhuthi packet or tablet?
:)) |
Semmozhi
Joined: Aug 2008 Posts: 2691 Member Profile
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13 Nov 2008 09:02:39 GMT Report for Abuse
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Aani,
I think you should read this
On June 6, 1993 four people who were armed with knives were killed after they had intruded in Sai Baba's bedroom. The intruders had killed two aides of Sai Baba. The incident was widely published in the Indian press. Sathya Sai Baba claimed in his 1993 Guru Poornima discourse on July 3 that jealousy among his followers was behind the incident, without giving a detailed explanation of the events. The former Secretary of the Home Minister of Andhra Pradesh, V.P.B. Nair, who came from of a police background, expressed in the BBC documentary his opinion that the four assailants in 1993 had unnecessarily and illegally been shot by the police. There are other opinions from the eye witnesses who were present in the Mandir premises on that night, that police did the right thing to protect the life of several others, as the four people were armed and had already stabbed two people to death.
The debates about Sathya Sai Baba were fueled by a document published in 2000 called 'The Findings', written by David and Faye Bailey (former followers who together wrote three books on Sathya Sai Baba ), in which they described theirdisillusionment with the guru.
According to an article in Salon.com in the year 2001, a great part of the Findings contains testimonies of sexual harassment and sexual abuse. The Findings contain allegations of fakery, claims that Sai Baba does not heal sick people and allegations of financial irregularities with charity projects, such as the Super Specialty Hospital and water project. David Bailey previously wrote, in his two books about Sathya Sai Baba, that he personally witnessed manifestations, healings, miracles and was saved from a car accident by Sathya Sai Baba.
The Daily Telegraph stated that Sathya Sai Baba rubbed oil on the genitals of a young male devotee. The testimonies of sexual abuse of young men were shown in TV documentaries, including 'Seduced by Sai Baba' by Denmark's national television, and documentary film 'Secret Swami' by BBC. The TV documentary 'Seduced By Sai Baba', produced by Denmark's national television and radio broadcaster Danish radio aired in Denmark, Australia and Norway.
i remember sai baba had good following, but since 2000 he has become notorious, i was in 9 th standard when i read an article reavealing sai' unseen side in outlook magazine. I wonder how come you never came across these facts.
The BJP ruled Govt did try some damage control after the revelations, but werent largely successfull.
Edited By - Semmozhi - 13 Nov 2008 09:05:41 GMT |
AnuD Senior Member
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13 Nov 2008 09:06:10 GMT Report for Abuse
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SAi Baba is not Fake.
He may have not understood him as he is.
People may not have understood him at he is |
Velir Senior Member
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13 Nov 2008 09:06:35 GMT Report for Abuse
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Where? Read properly:))
As we crossed a bridge above a sandy, dry riverbed, Baba indicated that this would be the place. The cars halted at the side of the road, and we started to climb down the bank to the sandy river bottom. I was beside Baba. As we passed a bush, Swami broke off two twigs, placed them together and asked me, 'What is this, Hislop?'
'Well Swami, it is a cross,' I answered. Baba then closed His fingers over the twigs and directed three somewhat slow breaths into His fist, between thumb and forefinger. Then He opened His hand to reveal a Christ figure on a Cross, and He gave it to me.
He said, 'This shows Christ as he really was at the time he left his body, not as artists have imagined him. His stomach is pulled in and his ribs are all showing. He had no food for eight days.'
I looked at the crucifix but found no words. Baba then continued: 'The wood in the cross is the same as the wood of the actual cross on which Christ was crucified. To find some of that wood after 2000 years took a little time! The image is of Christ after he died. It is a dead face.'
I noticed something odd and asked, 'Swami, what is that hole at the top of the cross?' Baba replied that the cross had been originally hung from a standard.
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^^^ is found on your main article and is posted again in your first post:)
i was reading properly O-master-guru :)
watching the video now |
Velir Senior Member
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13 Nov 2008 09:12:24 GMT Report for Abuse
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Dr. Hislop has a doctorate from UCLA.
You are prepared to call VP 'Sir' and believe in all the crap about the Western nations being prepared to recognise Tamil Eelam (In spite of mounting number of countries banning them) and that the final war is on.
i never called anyone sir except while in school when i was required to:), not Vp, not any guru or not god even :)
I would rather believe the good doctor from UCLA.
you are free to believe in what you believe. and, the same way i too believe in what to believe..or rather choose not to believe-in this issue
The ones who endorse Sai's message include nuclear scientists, eminent physicians, powerful politicians and successful businessmen.
Anyone can put out videos using body doubles and so on. I would rather believe the above mentioned category than Velir, SKB, Kural and co. How many of you have a degree from UCLA? How many of you have a doctorate?
No offence. Love you all:))
Aani dont get emotional!. as you pass along the message of Saibaba we think we should pass along the message of why we do not believe in him. thats all no offense meant and none taken.
as for your laundry list of professionals the same could be said of those who believe in 'creationism!'. yes many such Phd's and others still believe that god 'made' man and that Darwin is wrong.
eeddup padippu karikkuthavaathu enru oru pazhamozhi irukku
Edited By - Velir - 13 Nov 2008 09:16:48 GMT |
MarkLevinson Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 22928 Member Profile
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13 Nov 2008 09:18:11 GMT Report for Abuse
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Aani,
I never thought you would resort to post this kind of utter crap:):):)
You are prepared to call VP 'Sir' and believe in all the crap about the Western nations being prepared to recognise Tamil Eelam (In spite of mounting number of countries banning them) and that the final war is on.
What Velir's belief in politics got to do with it???
This is like 'koheda yanne malle pol' story :):):):)
I would rather believe the above mentioned category than Velir, SKB, Kural and co. How many of you have a degree from UCLA? How many of you have a doctorate?
Doctorates????
Let me ask you a question along with your OWN logic of respecting DOCTORATES....
For example take Nalin De Silva.....mind you he is a Proff...not a DR...
De Silva obtained his Doctorate in Theoretical Cosmology from the University of Sussex in 1970.....
Now do you believe in his 'Jathika Chinthanaya' simply because of him being a DOCTOR???????
Damn why 99% of these bogus GOD MEN are from India???? |
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