BUDDHIST REMAINS IN THE JAFFNA PENINSULA - Historical References

  • 10 Mar 2007 04:34:18 GMT

    Kulakottan:

    Do you accept the fact that Damkola-patuna/Yapapatuna and now Jaffna people long ago talked ELU.

    Do you agree with that ?.

    Are you a HIndu or a Catholic ?. (Answer only if you want to).

    Why you can not accept that Buddha could come magically ?.

    What do you think about the ancient Bridge, that Indiand talking about ?.

  • 10 Mar 2007 05:12:46 GMT

    AnuD,

    [Do you accept the fact that Damkola-patuna/Yapapatuna and now Jaffna people long ago talked ELU.]

    Even though there are references to a language called Elu, no one really knows exactly what this language was. There is hardly any evidence to identify the language/languages spoken by the ancient people of this island prior to the arrival of the North-East Indians perhaps also from S.Indian shores closer to the island. After that we are in a safer ground where we could say that majority spoke a Prakrit language and a minority spoke Tamil. In a nutshell, sorry I cannot give you a direct answer.

    I am a Hindu and that does not mean I believe all these supernatural myths and legends introduced by the Vedic Brahmins for their own vested interest. Some of these mythical stories were also to teach moral values to the ancient people. On the same token, I do not believe in magic which are now performed by illusionary actions.

    In other words I do not believe a word of the magical arrival of Lord Buddha to this island. To me it was created by the descendants in action of the Vedic Brahmins who were the Biddhist monks in the Ancient times in this island o glorify the religion.

    [What do you think about the ancient Bridge, that Indiand talking about ?.]

    I think it could have been a man-made bridge or just a group of islands in the form of a bridge created by nature.

    However, I think of it only as a legend that was created by the author of the Hindu Epic Ramayana who claims that it was made by the Monkey Army of Lord Rama. Unless it is scientifically or otherwise proven, it would remain just as a legend for me.

    Kula

  • 10 Mar 2007 22:59:04 GMT

    AnuD,

    Mokada ban ey para Yapane paththata oluwa harawanne???

    Ehe kellekutawath hitha gihillada???

    :):):):)

  • 13 Mar 2007 04:46:04 GMT

    ANU D,

    [Vasabhas Gold plate found at Vallipuram near Point Pedro mentions a minister named Piyaguka Tissa who built a vihara]

    Puyanguka Tissa is actually the name of the Vihara built in Badhakara Athana. The person who built that was a Minister of King Vasabha by the name Isigiraya.

    -Mucha

    .

  • 13 Mar 2007 04:46:23 GMT

    KULA,

    [You may also read the refrence to the above few more times. It is referred to as Jampukolapatuna. Patuna is a prakritized Tamil word `Pattinam`, means in Tamil `a port city`.]

    It is not ANU D, but apparently you who need to read reference to the above, few more times. This is what Mahavansa says in relation to the incident ANU D referenced.

    [Assayujasukkapakkhe nikkhanto dutiyehani

    sanuyutto jambukole naavamaaruyha pattaane (Mahavansa, Chapter XVIII, Verse 7)]

    This should make it clear that the port from which the envoys of King Devanampiya Thissa led by Maha Aritta embarked was Jam*BU*kole Pattana and not Jam*PU*kola Patuna.

    It is good if you reveal us the evidence that made you to categorically declare that Patuna (or Pattana in Pali) is the Prakitized form of Tamil word Pattinam, and NOT v.v. (i.e. Pattinam is the Tamilized Prakrit word Pattana).

    I am not trying to make a point here. However, it remains a fact that Pattana is not a word alien to Pali (or Magadhi) at all. First we have Sathara Sathipattanas, a discourse of Buddha in Majjhima Niakaya of Sutra Pitakaya. Then there is Pattanappakaranaya, one of the books of Abhidhamma Pitakaya of Tripitaka. And there is also another book (if I can correctly remember it`s name) called Pattanasaaradeepani.

    I am not sure whether the meaning of the Pali word Pattana in the above instances bore the same meaning as in the case of Jambukola Pattana. However, as far as I know, the term Pattana in Pali has the general meaning of a Platform or a foundation.

    -Mucha

    .

  • 14 Mar 2007 18:18:32 GMT

    Mucha,

    [However, it remains a fact that Pattana is not a word alien to Pali (or Magadhi) at all.]

    Just because you have some knowledge in Buddhism and you are able to extract some Pali words from the Buddhist scriptures, please do not twist and manipulate the meaning or the pronunciation of the Pali words to your advantage thinking that the others are just fools.

    It is good if you reveal us the evidence that made you to categorically declare that the term Pattana is a Pali word and it has the general meaning of a Platform or a foundation?

    [First we have Sathara Sathipattanas, a discourse of Buddha in Majjhima Niakaya of Sutra Pitakaya.]

    The Majjhima Niakaya of Sutra Pitakaya has something known as Satipatthana Sutta which talks about the presence of mindfulness, and NOT Sathipattana as wrongly mentioned in some websites. Then there is Mahasatipatthana Sutta in the Digha Nikaya. Similarly, the others what you have mentioned.

    Please note that Pattana and Patthana (Ta and Tha) have totally different pronunciation and they are not the same.

    The Pali term Patthana (NOT Pattana) found in the 3 Pitakayas means the foundations,

    ?The book of origins?, on the causes of existence.

    My advice to you is, practice the four satipatthanas properly (NOT satipattanas).

    [I am not sure whether the meaning of the Pali word Pattana in the above instances bore the same meaning as in the case of Jambukola Pattana.]

    Unfortunately there is NO such Pali word Pattana but there is a Malayalam word called Pattana.

    Kula,

    You can continue from here if you think it is worth.

  • 15 Mar 2007 04:56:07 GMT

    Dear READERS,

    For me, this is yet another case of *Kshanika Mochanaya*. I clearly left sufficient room for any doubts about what I said in my previous post, as I was not a Pali scholar. And that was why said in no uncertain terms that I WAS NOT MAKING A POINT there.

    Unfortunately, the English literacy of our new found Pali Scholar is seemingly not sufficient enough to understand the obvious uncertainty I purposefully left in my tone.

    If there is a difference between Pattana and Patthana (as I have already doubted), let it be the case. However, it is good if these scholars can show the same courage in analysing so called *JamPUkola Pattana*, which I had no doubt about.

    -Mucha

    .

  • 15 Mar 2007 17:20:49 GMT

    DEAR READERS,

    I just cannot stop LOL, *Kshanika Mochanaya* can be cured with a delay cream but when people make blunders of the above nature and then try to take cover under the English literacy, is it not absolutely hilarious?

    Here is a case of the one and only English scholar after the `1956 Sinhalese only era`, who gets his satisfaction by analyzing the English literacy of others when he gets stumped on the subject of discussion.

    [I clearly left sufficient room for any doubts about what I said in my previous post, and that was why I said in no uncertain terms that I WAS NOT MAKING A POINT there.

    Unfortunately, the English literacy of our new found Pali Scholar is seemingly not sufficient enough to understand the obvious uncertainty I purposefully left in my tone.]

    It is true, I am neither an English Scholar nor English is my mother tongue, my English knowledge is limited to what I learned in Sri Lanka under the Sinhalese only era.

    Now, let us look into what our English Scholar wrote to Kula,

    [I am not trying to make a point here. However, it remains a fact that Pattana is not a word alien to Pali (or Magadhi) at all.

    First we have Sathara Sathipattanas, a discourse of Buddha in Majjhima Niakaya of Sutra Pitakaya. Then there is Pattanappakaranaya, one of the books of Abhidhamma Pitakaya of Tripitaka. And there is also another book (if I can correctly remember it`s name) called Pattanasaaradeepani.

    I am not sure whether the meaning of the Pali word Pattana in the above instances bore the same meaning as in the case of Jambukola Pattana.]

    Since my English literacy is seemingly not sufficient enough to understand the obvious, can anybody tell me what the following statement means?

    [I am not trying to make a point here. However, it remains a fact that Pattana is not a word alien to Pali (or Magadhi) at all.]

    If you read the above statement and what he wrote after that, is it clear to you that there is uncertainty in his tone, that is, he is NOT sure about the term Pattana if it is a Pali word or not?

    When I proved that PATTANA IS NOT A PALI WORD, he says that he left sufficient room for any doubts about what he said.

    Does the statement `I am not trying to make a point here` leave sufficient room for any doubt about what he said, that is Pattana is a Pali word?

    I thought only History is being abused but even Buddhism is abused.

    He may try to fool others but he cannot fool his own consciousness knowing very well that what he said was not true.

    Some people are decent enough to accept that they made a mistake, while some others are not. Let the readers decide.

    KULA, SAKTHI, where are you guys, I need your response.

  • 16 Mar 2007 00:42:34 GMT

    Dear READERS,

    I have no intention to perpetuate this as I have already made my point clear. I had sufficient doubts at the time I raised that point with Kula, and therefore left enough room for any uncertainties. I would like to leave it for the readers to decide why I might have made statements like the following, if not for the doubts I had.

    [1. **I AM NOT TRYING TO MAKE A POINT HERE**. However, it remains a fact that Pattana is not a word alien to Pali (or Magadhi) at all. (Emphasis added)]

    [2. I am **NOT SURE** whether the meaning of the Pali word Pattana in the above instances bore the same meaning as in the case of Jambukola Pattana. However, **AS FAR AS I KNOW**, the term Pattana in Pali has the general meaning of a Platform or a foundation. (Emphasis added)]

    Having said that, let me also point out one more thing.

    Lula said,

    [When I proved that PATTANA IS NOT A PALI WORD, he says that he left sufficient room for any doubts about what he said.]

    So, according to LULA, PATTANA is not a Pali word. However, Pali Text Society (founded by Rhys Davids in 1881) has an opinion different to that, as they have an entry for the word Pattana in their Pali-English Lexican.

    This is what it says:

    [Pattana:

    Pattana (nt.) (*Sk. pa-7789;-7789;ana) a place, city, port J i.121; iv.16, 137, v.75; PvA 53. -- -730;ka a sort of village J vi.456.]

    I AM EAGERLY WAITING FOR LULA TO CLARIFY IF HE STILL STAND BY HIS STATEMENT THAT *PATTANA* IS NOT A PALI WORD. I AM ALSO WAITING FOR HIM TO SHOW SIMILAR COURAGE EXPLAINING THE TERM JAM*PU*KOLA PATUNA.

    -Mucha

    FYI: Readers, there are two Pali words called Pattana and Patthana. The first one means a Port and the second one refers to a Foundation. Muchalinda earlier thought that as two ways of writing the same word, and thus the confusion.

    .

  • 16 Mar 2007 03:52:24 GMT

    Dear Readers,

    As Kula has already explained very clearly, the terms Pattana, Pattanam, Pattanama, and Patuna originates from the Tamil word Pattinam meaning `a port city`.

    [Pali Text Society (founded by Rhys Davids in 1881) has an opinion different to that,]

    There opinion that Pattana means `a port city` is correct but if their opinion is Pattana is a Pali word, then they are incorrect.

    The Pali Buddhist texts contains the term Patthana (not Pattana) meaning `Origins or Foundations`, and I could not find the word Pattana in the Pali dictionary.

    At last, our friend Muchalinda found some courage to at least acknowledge his blunder by using the term confusion.

    The rest is up to Kula to continue if he thinks it is worth.

    Have a great day!