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Su33
Joined: Dec 2006
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LK Information  5 Feb 2007 13:58:49 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Saervek,

Do you have any idea what that canon which is fitted onto that waterjet is in Greyfox's article?

Also can 23mm canons be fired manually?

Because I think all of SLN's FACS do not have the fire control system. Also the LTTE uses 23mm canons, and I dont think they have fire control. That's absurd even to think of. Its like that editted Mig21 with LTTE beside it :-)
---
Mr. Mig29,

This is in regards to the JCET training exercises. Since you said
I can't tell you sorry


Is it because you don't know or is it because it is classified? If it is that classified why was the scheduled exercise in the headlines in some news agency reports? Some even gave the location. :-)
snake2
Joined: Aug 2006
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LK Information  5 Feb 2007 15:18:20 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Su33,
Its like that editted Mig21 with LTTE beside it :-)

Hey now, don't be disrespecting that Mig pic Missie!
that one is sacred! ;))
You can't beat the two LTTE cardres 'floating' out of the jungle and the other guard who seems to be standing on a vertical wall!!:))
Edited By - snake2 - 5 Feb 2007 15:35:03 GMT
SenaM
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LK Information  5 Feb 2007 16:26:10 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Snake2

In the 'old days', when we had the Mig-15, and Mig-17 a'cft in the SLAF inventory, I am aware necessary Manuals (in English) were supplied to maintain these a'cft up to 'Depot' Level. Excellent Manuals .. containing a wealth of information.. they went into such detail, as to advise on the 'manufacture' of oil seals, and other consumables .. specifying synthetic rubber mix, temperatures and times for 'curing' etc.

Yes, subj Manuals contained detailed information/instructions for undertaking both minor, and major airframe repairs. I believe, SLAF has the necessary information in Manuals supplied with their Russian, and Chinese made a'cft (Mig 23/27, F-7, K-8 etc).

However, final authority for the repair of military aircraft in the SLAF is the Director of Aeronautical Engineering (he is not dependant on the Civil Aviation Authority, in this connection). If no instructions are found in Manuals supplied with the a'cft for a particular repair - he has the choice of applying to the a'cft manufacturer (design authority), for a 'Repair Scheme', or issue-ing a Repair Scheme under his signature (he has drawing office facilities available to him) .. he will no doubt be guided by published matl in subj airframe repair manuals, other matl from FAA, CAA .. etc.
Edited By - SenaM - 5 Feb 2007 17:56:14 GMT
SenaM
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LK Information  5 Feb 2007 19:53:05 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Su33

Should be possible for 23mm cannon (and even larger calibre weapons), to be fired manually. 'Auto' feature will come in to the picture, when you want 'gun-aiming' and 'firing' co-ordinated through a computer .. anyway, that is my understanding of the subject
Edited By - SenaM - 5 Feb 2007 19:54:41 GMT
snake2
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LK Information  6 Feb 2007 08:23:24 GMT  Report for Abuse  
SenaM,
Thank you very much for the information. Appreciate you taking the time to write some really valuable info down.
Cheers
Snake2
Su33
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LK Information  6 Feb 2007 14:10:24 GMT  Report for Abuse  
lol at snake2...wonder what's next in the pipe.....soosai next to the USS Tarawa oopps sorry TES Tarawa, or VP next to a M270 MLRS? lol
---
SenaM,

Should be possible for 23mm cannon (and even larger calibre weapons), to be fired manually. 'Auto' feature will come in to the picture, when you want 'gun-aiming' and 'firing' co-ordinated through a computer .. anyway, that is my understanding of the subject


That's what I thought as well, needed some expert opinion :-) But does that mean some of our dovras are firing wayward? we really need someone from the navy here :-(

Also that independentsl site hasn't even bothered to edit those. They've just lifted the entire post of Mr. Mig29. What a disgrace. In some sentences of their 'article' it says 'in my opinion', 'forum'......lmao heehee.

To top it all off at the bottom it says....

'All rights reserved. The information contained in The Independent report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Independent'


What the hell? Can't Mr. Brown do something about it?
Edited By - Su33 - 6 Feb 2007 14:14:59 GMT
SenaM
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LK Information  6 Feb 2007 14:54:55 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Su33

I some-times get the feeling, SLN is too dependent on the Israelis (Rafael Group), for guns, gun-mounts, and armaments in general. This may be due to the fact that the 'capital' equipment in the shape of the Dvoras etc came from Israel. Even so, they may do better to use their own initiative .. 'lean' towards other sources for information and equipment .. After all, there are plenty of other sources (manufacturers), ready to supply us with good/reliable weaponry, else-where in the world.

Some-one posed the question, earlier .. 'What do we do with 23mm cannon, and ammunition, when they come-off our FACs ?'

We should use 'our initiative' .. adapt, and install the surplus cannon in other (smaller) craft. Should not be beyond the capability of engineers in SLN and the Colombo Dockyard facility - where they are building major 'sea-going' craft.
Edited By - SenaM - 6 Feb 2007 20:52:13 GMT
Mig-29C
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LK Information  7 Feb 2007 11:20:52 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Mr. Saervek

... My understanding is that you can get one of the more basic Fulcrums (or other A/C) at that price or cheaper, with the possibility of upgrading it as more funds become available... I think the FC-1 has design influence from the MiG-33, correct? Also accounting for some similarity in parts, like the RD-93 how much less maintainence intensive is a FC-1 likely to be than a MiG-29 (although of course FC-1 only has 1 RD-93)?


I see your point Mr.Saervek, and you have indeed raised some very interesting points.

What you need to think about is what will be the exact mission requirement for the SLAF post the Thamil Tiger insurgency. Taking into consideration the geographical location of your island nation - Sri Lanka really has no foreign enemies.

It is highly unlikely that India will be a threat to Sri Lanka. Hypothetically even if they were, the SLAF unfortunately is no match for the IAF. As a result achieving air-superiority is meaningless. What the SLAF needs is a capable Multi-Role aircraft.

The reason I recommend the JF-17/FC-1 was not based entirely on the aircrafts combat capabilities; i also took into consideration the fact that this airframe is likely to be in widespread use with the Air forces of 3 countries that have very good relations with Sri Lanka - China, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

This geographical distribution greatly simplifies the SLAF's spare parts/support + servicing and training needs on any new in-service type. This as I explained earlier forms a bulk of the operating cost of any operational combat aircraft.

The MiG-29C or MiG-29S, the basic Fulcrum export variant, is an excellent aircraft. The aircraft should be available for around $7-9 million. Upgrading the Fulcrum-C to the Fulcrum-SMT or even Fulcrum-SM standard will cost an additional $5-8 million. Which brings the aircraft into the $10-15 million bracket of the FC-1. Taking into account that India will be the only operator of a similar Fulcrum variant - Bangladeshi Fulcrums will be phased out - should the SLAF choose an aircraft that will be harder to support and maintain.

Any questions about the FC-1's design and maintenance needs appear to be well explained on the following site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JF-17_Thunder

In reply to your point - yes i believe the FC-1 should be considerably less maintenance intensive, about 1/4 less. However it is hard to give an accurate assessment until the aircraft see's operational service.

..Are these weapons slaved to radar? While speaking of this, wouldn't something like the ZSU-23-4 Shilka have been more effective instead. The Shilka would probably cost a lot more but then it would probably also be quite effective in the ground fire-support role, for which it could be used while not defending bases...


None of these guns have an inbuilt radar capability for detection or targeting. They are all manually operated units.

I believe given the threat - the ZSU-23-2, 40mm and 94mm anti-aircraft artillery guns are an adequate response to this threat. The threat is from piston engined aircraft, not fast jets .. you don't need a unit as complex as the ZSU-23-4 SHILKA for this..

The mobile ZSU-23-4 SHILKA is an attractive offer .. however the Sri Lankan military I believe has sufficient assets that fulfil the ground fire-support role.

a lot of publications mention the purchase of 3 C-130Ks, but in the end the SLAF only took delivery of 2 correct? Any idea on why the discrepancy exists?


The SLAF initially planned to acquire 3 x C-130K's from the UK - Surplus RAF air-to-air refuelling tankers.

CR880 and CR881 were the 2 initial aircraft delivered to the SLAF in 2000. CR882 was still in the UK being retrieved from storage at the Marshall Aerospace engineering complex in Cambridge, England getting readied to be overhauled.

However during the preceding months of that year - most likely due to financial constraints - the order for CR882 was cancelled.

The SLAF approached the UK MOD in 2005 again for this same aircraft .. however negotiations eventually fell through after a couple of months.

how much are they going to do there, and how much will they source to you guys in the US?


Depends on which aircraft type your talking about..

If it's the F-7 - then yes I believe the facility does everything by themselves, from stripping the aircraft right down to parts manufacture - apart from some parts which are sourced from China - and assembly. The US has no involvement whatsoever at any level in this process.

I've been told the F-7 airframe has a TBO (time before overhaul) of roughly 800 flight hrs before being sent for a depot level overhaul, and the engine has a life of around 200 hrs before it needs to be completely stripped down. Airframe overhaul roughly takes 30 weeks, which includes completely stripping the aircraft down for a workshop-level inspection and repair of its components.

However PAF F-16's are overhauled - Depot Level - In the US.

Also is it possible to opt for the AE2100 used on the J instead?


The RollsRoyce AE2100 turbo-prop is a more powerful engine compared to the T56-A-15 on the original C-130K. The wing on the C-130J is however the same as the one on the C-130K, therefore the wing should be strong enough to handle the additional dynamic loads due to the increase in thrust. So yes, theoretically the C-130K can be re-engined with the RollsRoyce AE2100.

However the engine management system is completely different for the AE2100, and as a result the C-130K avionics suite will have to incorporate the associated software upgrades which runs in parallel to upgrades to the flight instrumentation on the aircraft.

There was also supposed to be a request for an additional aircraft from US surplus... can you comment if this is so/likely to go through?


As far as I know - even though initial reports indicated that the aircraft will be supplied free of charge, there is a small cost associated with this deal. Negotiations over this are still ongoing, however the aircraft type in question is still available and will most likely still be handed over to the SLAF - I will try and find out some more about this on a later date.

What I found odd about it was the fact that the SLAF hasn't really shown any interest in adding to its F-7 fleet before... keeping what they have, sure, but they haven't purchased any new craft after the first order have they?


When the F-7BS entered SLAF service in 1991 the service only had a handful of pilots that could actually operate this aircraft.

The F-7BS was never meant to be a genuine ground attack aircraft. Its primary mission was air-combat with a very limited secondary ground attack capability using unguided munitions.

The straight delta is a poor wing design for a ground attack aircraft, especially if your expected to fly at low altitude and fast to achieve the necessary accuracy when using unguided munitions. The buffet characteristics, and a notorious habit of the aircraft suffering flutter at low-altitudes/high speed - operating right at the edge of the aircrafts flight envelope - made the ride for the pilot extremely difficult and the task of engaging ground targets that much more difficult. In addition to the poor design, the offensive avionics on the F-7BS were also poor. The aircraft lacked a radar and had a rather simple ballistic optical gunsight.

The result was horrendous accuracy in most ground attack missions. The SLAF got considerable flak during this period for poor target selection and accuracy of strikes as civilian casualties were high.

This coupled with the SLAF's inability to properly service and maintain the aircraft because of a poor spare part supply/support network, in addition to the fact that the aircraft were ill suited for the type of missions being flown and operating terrain - which placed a high burden on the airframe and engines - made most of the F-7BS fleet not-airworthy a majority of the time.

I believe as a result of these operational experiences this aircraft type was never included in future SLAF fleet expansion plans.

However the FT-7PG is a different class of aircraft when compared to the F-7BS.

For starters it has a slightly better wing than the F-7BS - based on the F-7M wing - which has dramatically improved the aircrafts low-level handling qualities. The aircraft has a slightly better engine in the WP-7B(BM) compared to the WP-7B. These physical changes coupled with a quantum leap in improvement in the capabilities of the avionics/offensive + defensive systems, over the F-7BS, makes the FT-7PG a superior low-altitude performer.

... implying it was a TC2... Which means the SLAF do use those on combat sorties. What do you guys think?


Although the SLAF is know to have 8 active operational single-seat Kfir aircraft (6 x C.2 and 2 x C.7) and 2 x Kfir TC.2's. Only about 1/3 of the single-seaters are combat ready on any given day. The other aircraft are at different levels of repair/overhaul. As a result when there have been occasions the SLAF required 3 or 4 aircraft for a single sortie, the TC.2 was used due to a lack of serviceable single-seaters.



Ms. Su33

Is the bushmaster still open to SLN Mr. Mig29? If so what's the holding SLN back?


This weapon is still available for export if the SLN wishes to acquire it..

It would appear the delays are due more to politics than anything else.

Anyways guys do you have any idea who flew the Migs yesterday? Was it our own Lankan pilots? Or were they mercenaries? Even though they flew I have a hunch they may not be combat ready yet.


They were flown by SLAF pilots as far as I know..

They are indeed combat ready.

This is in regards to the JCET training exercises. Since you said

I can't tell you sorry

Is it because you don't know or is it because it is classified? If it is that classified why was the scheduled exercise in the headlines in some news agency reports? Some even gave the location. :-)


I am aware of certain details about this exercise .. however, I am reluctant to reveal what I know to this blogging site.

I cannot reveal any policy decisions taken by our military or my Government on this site. I'll let our embassy in Sri Lanka officially announce anything regarding this issue.

All I can say is that the exercise is still on the cards and, it was not rescheduled as a result of the attack on the Naval base at GALLE as reported in the media in your country.. from what I know, there were other tactical/operational reasons.

The date of the Exercise is irrelevant to members in this forum.


Mr. CannonFodder
It is a misunderstanding. I never said my friend is of Sri Lankan origin.He is a Ukranian of Russian origin. He once visited Sri Lanka some time ago when they were delivering BMP tanks by An124 transporter.That's his only Lankan connection.


My mistake .. I apologise for making that assumption :o)

Still .. you said he was a Technical advisor at the L'vov facility - what is his field of experience if you don't mind me asking?


Mr. Eksath

Don't you think the #2 Squadron needs some equipment - fast. They seemed to be stretched quite thin. Heavy capability is low..very low as you pointed out.


On paper - these are the current aircraft types in the 2nd Squadron with the SLAF:

C-130K -- CR880 -- Active
C-130K -- CR881 -- Spares aircraft

An-32B -- CR860 -- Active
An-32B -- CR863 -- Active
An-32B -- CR864 -- Active
An-32B -- CR866 -- Active
An-32B -- CR867 -- Active
An-32B -- CR868 -- Active
An-32B -- CR869 -- Active

BAe-748 -- CR830 -- Stored
BAe-748 -- CR833 -- Stored

The heavy lift capability is indeed quite dire .. hopefully things should improve in this department of the SLAF by the middle/end of this year.

Although your heavy lift capability is limited, your medium left capability is still quite strong. This should be sufficient to maintain the needs of your Northern forces at this current phase.

If the conflict spreads to this region - as long as the airbase is free from attack - i believe the SLAF should still be theoretically able to sustain its forces with the current assets.

The situation will definitively be a lot more comfortable for the 2nd Squadron if CR881 is active.. lets wait and see.



Mr. Rataperata

Its nearly 2 months after the arrival. But why we still didn?t see any use of the new Mig 27?s ? specially in the Eastern theater , It looks they have opted to use Mi24s,instead.


The MiG's will be used .. be patient Sir :o)

Aerial operations in the eastern sector of Sri Lanka MIGHT see some limited MiG-27D operations in the coming months - I must stress that they will be limited.

The HIND's will see more action.. enjoy the results

When it come to attack or destroy military establishment, lay deep in the jungle with less or no civilians exist (you know where I am talking about) , SLAF got a luxury to use bombs likes of .. fuel-air explosive S-8D and AT-6A Shtrum-9210.. is this a good ploy ??,, and which SLAF air craft can do this job properly ?? I know Mig27M will but I think Mi24 and 35 both capable of carrying these bombs am I correct??


As I informed the forum the use of FAE's will see more widespread use in the Northern theatre if the conflict does spread that far. It is indeed a very good ploy to use this weapon on certain targets :o)

The MiG-27D is best suited for this role because you need to get quite low and be doing it at speed.

The AT-6A and S-8D can indeed be carried by the Mi-24/Mi35 HIND, however it is unlikely the HIND will be used in the Northern theatre for this role.

The MiG-27D however cannot use the AT-6A anti-tank missile, but it can carry the S-8D.

FT-7PG fighter .. personally I hate ?fishbed? air frame. as you said its so vintage type.. and hope this is not the mystery air craft as you mention, cause if that the case its a total disappointment. And I also think that its mainly for high speed/low-level photo reconnaissance . But what will happened to those 2 ?Beach kings? grounded .. any idea when they gona fly again? ??


Whether this may or may not be the aircraft I was talking about is irrelevant .. this is a good aircraft, don't be disappointed .. it has been selected for a particular mission type which the SLAF appears to believe it needs a capability for.

There is a reason for everything - lets wait and see how this development pans out..

The BEECH 200's wont be flying just as of yet.

I will try and let the forum know when these aircraft come back into service.


Mr. Respect

May b Mr. Mig 29 will have an explanation to this.

http://www.independentsl.com/cgi-bin/newsscript1.cgi?record=1350

http://www.independentsl.com/cgi-bin/newsscript1.cgi?record=1349


As I have said on a separate occasion:

''If anyone in this forum is using information I have revealed in this thread or others alike - please use it wisely and discreetly.''


Please do not use this information in a manner as seen from the following websites - Otherwise I will have no option but to stop posting such information on this forum..


Well it appears someone in this forum is linked to this website..



As I informed this forum late last year - The increased role of SLAF Mi-24/35 HIND's in the forward battlefield in future air operations was demonstrated yesterday..

The 2 aircraft that undertook a combat operation yesterday in the East of Sri Lanka was CH630 and CH636 - both aircraft were Mi-24V's.

CH630 is equipped with a FLIR CoMPASS IV sensor - and from what I've been told - the capabilities of this sensor system was used to locate the Thamil Tiger gathering.

I was told CH630 was armed with 4 x B-8V-20 pods and CH636 was armed with 2 x B-8V-20 and 2 x UPK-23-250 pods. The targets were engaged using S-8 rockets and later fired upon using the GSh-23L twin-barrel 23 mm gun in the UPK-23-250 pod.

Post target assessment of the strike using CoMPASS sensor imagery revealed that the target was hit .. the IR images indicated casualties according to my sources in the SLAF.
Edited By - Mig-29C - 8 Feb 2007 18:16:05 GMT
Eksath
Joined: Dec 2006
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LK Information  7 Feb 2007 13:40:32 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Mig29C,

Thank you for all the new updates. I nominate that last post for the 'mother of all posts' award. :-)

The Harbin Y-12s are approaching/past 20 years of operational life and so are the true workhorses of the SLAF rotary wing fleet -the 212s. I have not heard plans to replace these assets. Should not the next level of replenishment of the fleet involve these? Also, the longtime need for a dedicated maritime wing to combat the LTTE lifeline has not been addressed?. Should it be? or does Sri Lanka rely on the Indian Navy and Coastguard to do that?

Looking forward to your next update.
Su33
Joined: Dec 2006
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LK Information  7 Feb 2007 14:28:38 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Dear Mr. Mig29,

Thanks so much again for answering my queries. As long as JCETS which have been going on since 1996 are on the cards, I am happy :-)

Also with regards to the MI24s - I just love them, which is why a great majority of my questions are based on them.

I was told CH630 was armed with 4 x B-8V-20 pods and CH636 was armed with 2 x B-8V-20 and 2 x UPK-23-250 pods. The targets were engaged using S-8 rockets and later fired upon using the GSh-23L twin-barrel 23 mm gun in the UPK-23-250 pod.


wow, one of them even carried 2 canon pods. I recall B2spirit asking you of the possibility of the Mig27 carrying canon pods. Amazing!

So is this the maximum payload the HINDs could carry Mr. Mig29? If they are to carry the AT-6 spirals, how many can one carry? Is it a maximum of 8 with 2x4 missile racks?

Also to my knowledge the S-8 has a max range of 4km. But if the HINDS were hovering at 4kms wouldn't the tigers know (hear it) they've been targetted leading them to run and disperse? Unless of course FAEs were used?
Edited By - Su33 - 7 Feb 2007 14:29:54 GMT
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