|
|
Kfir mishap averted
Full News Article
Eksath
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 453
Member Profile
|
 14 Jan 2007 21:13:17 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Mig29C..welcome back..Looking forward to more post from you.
SenaM, You are partly right. I don't believe the Pucura is best for SLAF. I also don't believe flying one frame or two is feasible,either. The manpower and inventory (if the SLAF could get it-they could not when they wanted it in the '90s) to keep them flying will be unrealistic for the firepower provided by them. Maintaining pilot proficiency/technical personel on such a small fleet will be unrealisitic.
The operational availability of just two frames will be very low -especially the Pucura.
example. An airforce wants 100% of it missions completed at any given time. It would be an awful result if one of these aircrafts goes 'tech' when an SLA unit is about to be overrun. The availability of multiple aircrafts means that there is always standby aircraft ready to go if the primary ones goes 'tech'. The pilot merely switches planes and goes if the checklist fails on the ground or a replacement pilot and frame takes off to replace in flight.
The threat of the LTTE to the SLAF is very real. The SLAF has posed a grave threat to them and they have sought to neutralize the threat. The number of attempts by them far exceeds the successful shootdowns. The following are established SLAF losses to LTTE attacks. I need to point out the the SLAF has exacted a fair amount of damage from the Enemy while maintaining a vital air bridge in place almost 24/7. It would be absolutely irresponsible to dispel the threat posed by the enemy to the SLAF. Please see list posted below for reference of the threats posed to SLAF aircraft. |
Eksath
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 453
Member Profile
|
14 Jan 2007 21:15:13 GMT Report for Abuse
|
1) 13 September 1990: SF.260TP 'CT-121' shot down near Palay by LTTE small arms fire, pilot KIA.
2) 5 July 1992: Y-8 'CR-872' shot down by LTTE SA-7 near Iyakatchitchy, during landing in Palay, killing all 20 on board.
3) 14 July 1992: SF.260TP shot down near Palay by LTTE; pilot Sqn.Ldr. Fernando KIA
4) 2 August 1994: Bell 212 'CH-?' shot down during fire-fight with LTTE, closer circumstances unknown.
5) 29 April 1995: HS.748 Srs.2A ?CR-835? shot down by LTTE SA-7 during landing in Palay, killing 52.
6) 29 April 1995: HS.748 Srs.2A 'CR-834' shot down by LTTE SA-7 during take off from Palay, killing 43.
7) 14 July 1995: IA.58A Pucara ?CA-601? shot down by SA-7; pilot Flt.Lt. Pereira KIA.
8) 18 November 1995: Y-8M ?CR-871? damaged by 20mm Oerlikon guns while landing in Palay, four crewmembers killed and five injured as the plane overshot and crashed into the sea behind the runway.
9) 22 November 1995: An-32 ?CR-862? shot down during landing in Palaly, killing all 63 troops and crewmembers on board.
10) 20 January 1997: Y-12 'CR-851' underway at 5.000ft when a memeber of the crew reported to Palaly ATC that an unknown vessel was spotted and the crew was about to descend in order to take a closer look; contact subsequently lost. Massive SAR operation produced no results; crew, consisting of Flt.Lt. Sudarashan Nanayakkara, Flt.Off. Prasanna Wettasinghe, Ld.Aircraftsman Wickremansinghe and Navy Lt. S. Ranaweera is missing.
11) 24 January 1997: SLAF helicopter, unknown type, damaged by small arms fire, but landed safely.
12) 19 March 1996: Mi-24 'CH-614' shot down by LTTE SA-7 into the Bay of Bengal, near Mullaitivu, killing eight (including a Russian pilot and flight technician).
13) 12 September 1997: Mi-24's tail rotor hit by ground fire, helicopter made emergency landing and was later repaired.
14) 10 November 1997: Mi-24 'CH-619' shot down by FIM-92A, two KIA and two recovered.
15) 10 November 1997: Mi-17 damaged by the same missile that shot down the Mi-24, crash-landed, without injuries to crew.
16) 25 November 1997: Bell 212 'CH-561' crashed near Puliyankulam during MEDEVAC mission, crew of four killed.
17) 7 January 1998: Mi-17 'CH-594' damaged beyond repair by RPG- and mortar hits while attempting to evacuate 20 injured soldiers; 2 heavy- and 5 slightly injured.
18) 26 June 1998: Mi-24 'CH-620' shot down south of Vavunia, killing four, including Fl.Off. Kodithuwakku, Pil.Off. Aathique, IAirm. Witharana and I.Airm. Pereza. LTTE claimed the helicopter to have been shot down, but SLAF sources credited the loss to technical problems.
19) 17 December 1999: Mi-24 shot down near Parantan, crashing into Jaffna Lagoon; four crewmembers KIA.
20) 18 February 2000: Bell 412 on MEDEVAC sortie claimed shot down by LTTE over the Thenmaradchi Division of the Jaffna Peninsula. Fate of the helicopter unclear; two SLAF crewmembers (co-pilot and gunner) were killed, four Army casualties on board, pilot, and another crewmember were recovered.
21) 24 May 2000: Mi-24 shot down by MANPAD over the part of Jaffna Peninsula held by SLA; both gunners were killed, but pilot and co-pilot survived the emergency crash-landing and were recovered.
22) 30 March 2000: An-32 ?UR-79170? (leased from the Ukraine) shot down by MANPAD near Vavunya; crew of four Ukrainians and 36 injured soldiers on board were all killed.
23) 19 October 2000: Mi-24 shot down near Nagar Covil by AAA, probably ZSU-23-4; reportedly crashed in an area held by SL security forces and was destroyed on impact.
24) 23 October 2000: Mi-24 shot down by LTTE MANPAD while supporting pursuit of LTTE raiders on Trincomale harbour; crew of four KIA including # 9 Squadron Commander. |
rataperata
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 53
Member Profile
|
 15 Jan 2007 03:39:24 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Welcome back Mig 29C its nice to see you back again .. hope you enjoyed your time in Sri Lanka and had a wonderful Xmas and New year?
And thanks for the info about the Mig 27 shipment , now I know how they arrived to SL and that An-124 is Huge plane ..
Would like to know the real facts behind the mannar air attack and its out come.. how successful is it ?? and those civilian casualties .. are they accurate.. if so we should have avoid it .. ? poor people and the Kids shouldn?t die .. ??
And guys ( and the girl SU33) in this thread .. keep it going .. I will input as the time permits ..
And the Pucara .. issue its really interesting .. learn lot about pucara?s.. SenM eksath .. guys keep up the good work.. but my Personal view is .. its not the right plane cause its slow maneuverability , which will be easy target for LTTE SAMs ..
But I do believe we need a close air support capable Fighter ..it come to my mind one of the earlier post from Mig 29 .. said that by the time we retired Pucaras .. SLAF short listed 3 Fighters for its new Jet fleet, One is Kfir other one some Chinese one (its more a jet trainer than a fighter) and the third my favorite is SU25 the ?Frogfoot? I heard this air craft is so efficient when it come to ground support and great competitor for its US counter part ?Warthog?A10 Thunderbolt?cause its 2 small Jet engines and its enormous fire power with six or eight hard points under the wings which can fitted with at least six rocket barrels .would have been the correct call . wonder why its been overlooked .. by SLAF ? , is any of the members agree with it .. ?? if not why??? Including you Mig29.. like to know all of your opinions ..
any way at the end of the day I think the SLAF got more than enough Fire power capable ,, what we need to do is to utilize the assets correctly rather than worrying for things that we no longer have ..
have to go.. have a nice day and take-care people and PEACE is the call for SL and its poor suffering people.. who are the real victims of this unwanted WAR? |
Su33
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1298
Member Profile
|
 15 Jan 2007 11:13:46 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Mr. Mig29,
Hope you had a great time back in SL.
Thanks so much! My apologies for speculating your connections with Raytheon. I thought I read somewhere in this thread. My bad!
I am yet to fully read and comprehend your post, so for now no questions from me. Thanks! :-)
However, in regards to the grounding of the Beechkings, Probably that's why we see a lull in SLAF operations. Am I right Mr. Mig29?
Eksath -
What an informative post on LTTE air threats. Its this air threat that made SLAF look beyond turbo prop air crafts to fly CAS missions if I remember correctly. As early as 1987 the LTTE had laid their hands on SA-7s. When the Tamilnadu police raided over 30 LTTE camps in Tamilnadu after the 1987 accord they found many military hardware and amogn them were SA7s. When IPKF landed in SL the LTTE reportedly fired 2 SA-7s towards an Indian gunship. But missed.
And regarding the Pucaras - Thanks much for the detailed info Eksath, Saervek, Senam. I agree with some that it was a good workhorse for SLAF. It indeed was. Infact when SLAF intercepted the first LTTE weapons ship off Mulativu (MV Horizon) it was a Pucara that landed the bomb that sent it down wasn't it? But considering the modern weaponry, countermeasures and increased awareness of civilian casualties SLAF should concentrate more on PGM capable Kfirs and MiGs. Pucaras as far as I am aware can only drop dumb bombs.
Edited By - Su33 - 15 Jan 2007 11:15:21 GMT |
Eksath
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 453
Member Profile
|
16 Jan 2007 01:19:02 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Su33,
Thanks. :-) Glad to be of help. You are correct about previous use of the Pucura on bombing runs on a gun runner. But, SLAF has been ingenious rolling homemade barrel bombs out of the cargo ramps of the Y-12s in the old days due to the need for firepower. They turned a utility aircraft like the 212 into a gunship etc. Need is the mother of invention.
As you pointed out one problem in using the SIAI -Marchetti Turbo Warriors or the Pucura was the accuracy and precision. Understandably, the the circular error of probability was quite large compared to the Kfir and the Mig 27. Things have changed alot :-) |
Dinuk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 272
Member Profile
|
 16 Jan 2007 06:23:26 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Guys & Girls,
Its Interesting to see that the pucara discussion going on..
Im curious, is it necessary to have fixed wing aircrafts for CAS Role for our forces? because modern forces today tend to use rotor aircrafts instead of using fixed wing aircrafts. example like 'Eurocopter Tiger' , Apache by US army Aviation Regiments.. We've got Couple of Good MI24/35 which is capable of supporting CAS role to our ground forces. what do you guys think??
cheers,
-Asela-
Edited By - Dinuk - 16 Jan 2007 06:28:04 GMT |
Biggles
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 65
Member Profile
|
17 Jan 2007 02:58:45 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Hello Chaps!
Being a flyboy, I have been watching the SLAF for some time.
But, I must say your Navy boys are something too. Now, I was wondering why Vergal Aru is not patrolled by boats to ensure no one crosses it without the say-so of your government. You know, Verugal Aru effectively cuts of the blighters from moving in mufti to the Vanni.
The type of boat I am thinking will skim the surface. They should use those new fangled on I saw in fly over the reeds in Florida. Add two 20 mm cannons and some sort of grenade launcher, and you have them penned in.
To be honest, you chaps have 201 rivers, I think. There should be an inland water way navy that takes care of this business. Maybe your Marines can do it too with right equipment. Besides, when you have a flood, it would downright fantastic to have a fleet of these boats.
Of course to fund the purchase of the boats, you can trade in that ship carrying the airframe, which one of you MPs own. Jolly chap, he is! An MP, who loves tigers!
Tactics... tactics... tactics.
Cherio boys!
Biggles |
Su33
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1298
Member Profile
|
17 Jan 2007 10:06:19 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Eksath - Yes! I've also heard of Bells dropping unpinned grenades in glass jars during the 80s. Talk about precision lol
Mr. Mig29-
Got some questions. Like Dinuk mentioned at late the MI24/35 are hardly used for the CAS roles. Since these are rotor wing aircrafts aren't these more capable of landing the knockout punch? Plus these can also be employed by the air mobile brigade since these can carry up to 8 troops. USAF seems to use the UH-60 Blackhawk quite a lot. Isn't the MI24 the Russian equivalent of the UH-60? And does our pilots use the automated target tracking as you explained?
Also can't the MI24/35 used by SLAF be armed by the radar guided Ataka ATGMs? Russian attack copters Ka-50 'allegator' hokum/hokum B, MI28N Havoc seems to carry them. So why not the MI24/35p? If I am right the Ataka is the Russian counterpart of the American Hellfire missiles. Any idea Mr. Mig29?
Finally - can't the firefinder be used to measure the accuracy of friendly artillery fire instead of using the range finders? (No idea how range finders work either, so an explanation of that too would be greatly appreciated).
Thanks a lot Mr. Mig29. I've asked quite a lot. Please take your time. I am in no hurry :-) TC
Edited By - Su33 - 17 Jan 2007 10:07:13 GMT |
Saervek
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 102
Member Profile
|
17 Jan 2007 10:50:21 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Hello MiG-29C,
Hope you had a good trip to Sri Lanka and India.
Just out of interest, how are the C-130Ks doing?
One other question, I've heard the SLAF mention that they've acquired a rebuild capability for the Bell 212s in service... I was just wondering if you'd know if they mean in terms of local parts manufacture or from assembly of parts sourced from OEMs. Thanks. |
Saervek
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 102
Member Profile
|
17 Jan 2007 12:44:16 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Su-33
Apologies for stealing MiG-29Cs thunder... but I had a couple of questions on this topic also, so I figured I'd answer. I think the Mi-24 mounts AT-2 Swatter Anti-Tank missiles in its older versions, and AT-6 Spiral from Mi-24V on. The Mi-24VM (upgrade) changes the missile again, to the 9A1472/9M120 complexes I believe. Not so sure what the SLAF would use such missiles on though. The ltte isn't particularly armour-heavy (it's hard to sneak a MBT past customs!), and would be a bit of a waste to use it on a sandbag post. Anyway I'm sure MiG-29C will append anything I've missed.
My question;
MiG-29C, I think you mentioned earlier that the Mi-24s were being equipped with Matra Magic R550s; I was just wondering why they opted for the Magics rather than the Igla-1V on Mi-24VM. I mean sure the Igla is basically a MANPAD etc but then its not like the ltte is the USAF.
I was wondering if the choice would be based on the similarity of the R550 Mk. I and the PL-7... if so it should be possible to mount those R550s on aircraft of Chinese origin like the K-8s right?
One other (unrelated) question: I heard the SLAF were looking at the F-7G... I was wondering what the logic behind this move was (if true), the Bangladeshi F-7BGs cost what, $6 million a piece? The SLAF certainly needs a credible air defence capability, but I wonder if they wouldn't be better served saving up and investing in a slightly newer design...
Edited By - Saervek - 17 Jan 2007 12:47:08 GMT |
|
Search All News and Discussions