|
|
Buddhist monks given training to ensure peaceful co-existence in Sri Lanka
Full News Article
Kulakottan
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2773
Member Profile
|
 10 Aug 2006 04:13:12 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Gamarala,
You have given me a reply eventhough not directly. Some time 'no reply' is also a reply.
Let us stop arguing now onwards, because of my following opinions and beliefs:
1. I strongly value my identity first as a Sri Lankan and then as a Tamil.
2. I have experienced the life of a Sri Lankan Tamil adequately in Jaffna, in the East and Colombo including 1983. So I know first-hand, what is to be a Tamil in Sri lanka.
3. I have understood your stance on the Tamil issue.
4. I do not support separation and therefore LTTE.
5. Finally and most importantly, I do not want to become a separatist and thus a LTTE supporter.
Thank you for your understanding.
Kula
Edited By - Kulakottan - 10 Aug 2006 04:18:12 GMT |
Mucha-linda
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3810
Member Profile
|
 10 Aug 2006 05:12:13 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Machan MURU,
One at a time..ok.
..you cannot just lump together the Vedda culture, (whose antiquity on the island is second to none) with all other 'hunter cultures'. It is certainly much more than that.
In case of Sri Lankan Veddas, there exist only two cultural aspects which are significant enough to make any identification of them from the rest, namely their language and their beliefs. As you have agreed, their language is nothing but a variation of Sinhala or Tamil based on which ancestry they are belonged to (Dambane Uru Warige, Nilgala Unapana Warige, Rathugala etc).
Their belief system can be loosely categorized to 'Ne Yakun Pideema' (or worshipping the Devils of their dead relatives). This is not something uncommon to most of the primitive African Tribes and Australian Aborigines. If you ever hope to visit this part of the world where I live, which is a Lucky Country, don't be surprised to see TV channels advising their viewers that the programs which are scheduled to follow, to carry voices of the deceased people. This is something common to SL Veddas as well. They too believe that, hearing the voices of dead people can make deceased to come after them.
You said,
Language is just one small facet of culture.
English Thinker Samuel Johnson believed otherwise.
Language is the Pedigree of a Nation. -Samuel Johnson
:(
Muru, before proceeding further, let me clarify my acceptance of the fact that Veddas can be somewhat pure in terms of genetics with respect to other ethnicities, nevertheless what Spittel said. In a way, this is not something to be surprised about. Until recently, Veddas maintained an isolated life style from the rest of the communities, and secondly they are very few in number to accommodate a pool of genealogical traits.
However it is wrong to say that,
This above dendrogram shows that the Sinhalese are furtherest away from the Veddas than any of the other Indian groups studied.
In addition to establishing the genealogical isolation of Veddas, what the above study showed is the complete opposite of what you said. Sinhalese at least had 4.73% genealogical contribution from Veddas, but Tamils had none.
In conclusion, the original inhabitants of Sri Lanka were the Veddahs, who have had little admixture with the Sinhalese and possibly none with the Tamils.
Let me also say a word about the Article by Dr. S.U. Deraniyagala.
What I spoke there was 'CULTURAL DESCENDENTS'.
..no one has so far proved that Veddas are the CULTURAL DESCENDENTS of the Balangoda Man, for me to prove that Sinhala Culture is as old as Veddas culture.
What Deraniyagala spoke about is GENEALOGICAL DESCENDENTS.
These human remains have been subjected to detailed physical anthropological study and it has been affirmed that the GENETIC CONTINUUM from at least as early as 18,000 BP at batadomba-lena to beli-lena at 16,000 BP to bellan-bandi palassa at 6,500 BP to the recent Vaddha aboriginal population is remarkably pronounced
:|
It should be clear that Muchalinda had no conflicts of interest with Siran :), not to remind you how he has already said that Balangoda Man is a common ancestor to Sinhala and Veddas.
Racial purity is a myth - lets get that straight.
It is good if others of your clan can understand this simple truth.
-Muchalinda
.
Edited By - Mucha-linda - 10 Aug 2006 05:23:28 GM |
GamaRaala
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1006
Member Profile
|
10 Aug 2006 05:28:31 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Kula,
You have given me a reply eventhough not directly. Some time 'no reply' is also a reply.
When you did not explain why citizens of Western Province, in contrast to North or East, do not have a RIGHT to self determination/semi-autonomy, I took your 'no reply' as the reply ;-)
From this point, there is nothing left to argue, isn't it? If you are prejudiced that North and East are 'SO SPECIAL THAN THE REST', North and East residents have rights that WP residents do NOT have, there is nothing to argue, isn't it?
2. I have experienced the life of a Sri Lankan Tamil adequately in Jaffna, in the East and Colombo including 1983. So I know first-hand, what is to be a Tamil in Sri lanka.
In the same way Tamils were harassed in the South, Sinhalese were harrsed in the North and East in 1983. From 83 onwards, Tamils continue to live in the South while the North was ETHNICALLY CLEANSED against Sinhalese till today. Sinhalese (and Muslims) were chased out of the North from merely being Sinhalese. Are Tamils being chased out in the South like this??
The race riots are not something only happen in Sri Lanka. Weren't there race riots in the USA and UK even after 1983? Weren't Muslims subjected to harrasements after 9/11 all over the Anglo-Christian World?
Tamils live happily in the Western Countries like England, Netherlands and Portugal. These were the VERY nations that killed Tamils, burnt their houses, Kovils, crops, possessed their properties and harrased them during the Colonial occupation in India and Sri Lanka since 1500's to 1948, for alomost 500 years. If Tamils can live happy with the same English nation in England, what problems do they have against Sinhalese in Sri Lanka?
Edited By - GamaRaala - 10 Aug 2006 05:31:10 GMT |
GamaRaala
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1006
Member Profile
|
10 Aug 2006 07:24:29 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Kula,
Let us stop arguing now onwards
Of course.
If you agree that you cannot sufficiently explain why 'residents of North and East are SUPER SPECIAL to have a right to self determination-semi autonomy in contrast with the residents of the WP who do NOT have similar privileges/rights', but still continue to resort to arguments like 'Unlike WP, North/East are entitled to semi-autonomy', then nothing further is left to argue.
Sometime ago, Lula also followed the same approach and declared that 'Lula believes what Lula wants to believe'.
Have a nice break.
Edited By - GamaRaala - 10 Aug 2006 07:43:58 GMT |
shan
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2260
Member Profile
|
 10 Aug 2006 17:56:00 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Dear ladies and Gentlemen
Dear SHAN,
You are not supposed to write a reply to every post. If you cannot find any facts to defend your arguments (most of which are destined to fail), you are entitled to be silent. You do not need to show everyone that you have run out of facts.
In fact, this is not the first time I gave you this friendly advice. Cannot you remember, you once argued that Sinhalas have never fought Portuguese, until I gave truck loads of evidences about all the wars that were taken place at places like Randeniwala, Danthure, Mulleriyawa etc. Even at that instance, I advised you to be silent without becoming a disgrace to all the Tamil intellectuals.
I asked the intellectual to tell us the Sinhala bravery in the N&E. Please give the regiments name and the number involved in Jaffna fort battle by your (king) chieftain. I am not interested in the south and west battles. To my knowledge by 12 AD things had changed in SL. So I would like to see his update with truck loads of historical evidence in the N&E.
Intelect once said Portuguese brought Tamils to SL.(lula's post to follow) What were the Sinhalas doing and who was in charge of in the N&E when Portuguese arrived? (East Tamils would have under Sinhala subjugation like today but the people were Tamil speaking)
If I missed his post please be kind enough to re post.
The problem here is nothing but lack of seismological evidence for sunken land masses, and not if that is taught in University of Kelaniya or if Muchalinda has ran away for months.
SJV didn?t ask for separate state because of the myth Lemuria, He was intelligent enough to know what his rights were. There are places having sunken in the east cost of Tamil nadu and researches are ongoing. I am not here to tell Tamils went to Malaysia walking across via Lemuria.
Muchalinda's departure was a well informed one and he had no outstanding arguments at the time.
Linda told the forum that Majority of the Tamils were brought by dutch for Tobacco cultivation and then withdrew his statement.
31 Jan 2006 09:11:01 GMT
This was the post by Lula in reponse to the so called Intelectual in
move to close the Jaffna university
Learned members of the Forum,
MUCHA-LINDA'S MYTH EXPOSED,
Mucha's myth:
'MOST OF THE TAMILS IN JAFFNA ARE IMMIGRANTS FROM COROMANDEL WHO CAME DURING THE DUTCH & BRITISH PERIOD'.
MUCHA-LINDA ACCEPTS HIS BLUNDER,
Mucha's reply:
If I made a mistake, remember, I have the courage to admit that. And, YES, I did make a mistake. The sentence I first wrote portrayed a scenario somewhat wrong. To correct it, there could be some Jaffna Tamils (not essentially most or all) whom are descended from the Coromandel Immigrants, and they were largely brought in by Portuguese and Dutch (not essentially Brits). I apologise if that caused any inconvenience.
And therefore Mucha-linda accepts that:
Most of the Tamils in Jaffna are NOT the descendents of people who were brought in by Dutch and later by Brits from Coromandel.
CASE CLOSED.
Lot more on the particular thread. Good to read.
This so called Intellectual must have some more information about Tamils at least by now. So let this his-storian to come out with some valued points. It is good to know and I am interested to know about from any X,Y and Z. |
Muru
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 505
Member Profile
|
10 Aug 2006 18:00:28 GMT Report for Abuse
|
This above dendrogram shows that the Sinhalese are furtherest away from the Veddas than any of the other Indian groups studied. Sorry what I meant to say is that the Sinhalese cluster much more closer to those other Indian groups in the study (such as Indian Tamils, South Indian Muslims, Bengalis, Punjabis etc) then they do to the Veddas. |
Mucha-linda
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3810
Member Profile
|
11 Aug 2006 00:25:29 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Muru,
Correction accepted.
Thanks.
-Mucha
. |
Mucha-linda
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 3810
Member Profile
|
11 Aug 2006 01:04:14 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Ladies and Gentlemen,
FYI:
PS: Dear Ladies and Gentlemen, this would be the last post Muchalinda will make in this regards. -(10 Aug 2006 02:16:57 GMT , Mucha-linda)
If any justification is required for Muchalinda's hesitation to continue, please refer to the following quotes.
Quote 1:
You (i.e. Sinhalas) didn't put up resistance to Portuguese! Or Dutch! Well done. -(2 Sep 2005 09:35:40 GMT, SHAN)
Yes..Well Done :)
Quote 2:
Don't call Kandy king was ruling batticalo. Kandy king is answerable to Queen OK. There was no such independent Kandy king after Rajasingan. -2 Sep 2005 09:35:40 GMT, SHAN)
The Queen discussed there, is none other than the Queen of England (!!).
It was also not long ago he accepted that East would have come under the control of Sinhala King (!!).
East Tamils would have under Sinhala subjugation like today but the people were Tamil speaking. -(10 Aug 2006 17:56:00 GMT, SHAN)
Muchalinda is dead scared to argue with people of this calibre.
-Muchalinda
:|
.
Edited By - Mucha-linda - 11 Aug 2006 02:27:04 GM |
shan
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2260
Member Profile
|
14 Aug 2006 06:31:05 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Ladies and Gentlemen:
Just a quick note to tell the forum members I did not go for any debate with any particular individual within stipulated time frame attached to it. I do not do in the future as well. I believe this a forum for discussions and we spend our time here to learn some thing.
Some time teachers get irritated if student is dumb and couldn't be explained the subject or a teacher being a dumb hasn't got knowledge to answer for a simple and straightforward questions.
When this gentleman wrote about the battles with Portuguese I clarified my position and asked the particular intellectual about N&E only. Can any one help the Professor or me the Sinhala battalions fighting in the N&E when Portuguese arrived? When was the mass migration of sinhala out of Jaffna and Batti?
To make it easy and clear I will reproduce parts of the discussions I had before,
http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2005/8/3191_32.html
[7 Sep 2005 09:51:07 GMT (shan) I wrote the following (part of the post)]
I (shan) wrote;
1.
2. Who was the general Portuguese/ Dutch brought Tamils from South India?
And how many thousands? Definitely Europeans will have accounts.
3.
4. What is your answer to the following?
Two different nations, from a very ancient period, have divided between them the possession of the Island: the Sinhalese inhabiting the interior in its Southern and western parts from the river Wallouwe to Chilaw, and the Malabars (Tamils) who possess the Northern and Eastern Districts. These two nations differ entirely in their religion, language and manners.
- Sir Hugh Cleghorn, British Colonial Secretary, June 1879
'As to the qualification required in the knowledge of the native languages, the Portuguese and Sinhalese only being mentioned excludes one which is fully necessary in the Northern Districts as the Sinhalese in the South. I mean the Tamil language, commonly called the Malabar language, which with a mixture of Portuguese in use through all the provinces is the proper native tongue of the inhabitants from Puttalam to Batticaloa northward inclusive of both these districts.. Your Lordship will therefore, I hope have no objection to my putting Tamil on an equal footing of encouragement with the Sinhalese'
- Sir Robert Brownrigg, Governor of Ceylon, 1813 Dispatch to the British Colonial Secretary of State, Reported in the Tribune, 12 January 1956)
5. What was the Sinhala population in the east 1948 and now? Didn?t GOSL colonised and supported Sinhala criminals tosettle in the N&E?
[[Mucha;
[This was your post on 1st of Sep
(SHAN Again x 2:
2) Quote: Obviously there should have been big big troubles when SL Tamils came here and we would not been invited without a single trouble do you agree?
On certain occasions, there were records of conflicts that took place between Tamils and Sinhalas, the one most famous is that between Elara (Ellilan) and Dutu Gemunu (Dutta Gamini). On certain other occasions Sinhalas calmly moved out from those areas without much of objections. There are evidence in this regards as late as from 20th Century. According to an account in the 1921 Census reports, Mudliyar of Batticaloa Kachcheri S. O. KANAGARATHNAM wrote on the approaching settlements of Muslims and Tamils: ?The whole of the Batticaloa District was under the King of Kandy. Sinhala Villages were dying out?. According to the Sessional Paper 43 of 1882 under the heading ?Forest Administration? (Chapter I Page 2): The gradual spread of the Tamils down the coast especially in the East and the fact that nowhere except in the Northern Province and in Tamankaduwa
old Tamankaduwa stretched to the North East coast
, do they form more than coastal settlements, are both striking. Wherever the Tamil or the Mohomendan comes to settle, the Sinhalese is driven back to the forest where he earns a precarious existence by chena cultivation and by hunting?)]]
Dear Learned members of this forum
Can any one say that the question is answered appropriately? Is it an internal displacement or people from India and Arab countries brought in by Portuguese and occupied the east?
[This was my reply ( reply in 2005) is never been answered
[On Mar 2, 1815, Lanka was ceded to the British under a treaty called the Kandyan Convention. You were talking some thing in 1921 then 1882 in between Kandy king and a Tamil Mudaliar in batticalo. What can I infer from that? Your answer was vague. You didn?t mention any big battles and mass mass migration. I hope you will answer later.]]
About the battles
[Mucha wrote
[After giving all the evidence about the Battles those took place at places like DANTHURE, RANDENIWALA, GANNORUWA, MULLERIYAWA, if you still say that you stood by your statement, may god bless you SHAN.) ]]
I wanted this gentleman to come out with N&E battles, never materialised till to date. Do I have to bother about a battle in S&W? Will it prove Sinhalese were in the N&E?
And this was my request.
When Indian Red cross brought relieve material to Jaffna people your navy intercepted the boats. Didn't they? Like that your Sinhala forces fighting in the N&E. Is that clear?
( Even if there was a battle that does not necessarily reflects the local population. Eg; If you cross from Syria to Iraq now you will be caught by US forces.)
Re kings confusion aroused and I replied to him
He brought an issue of Mr Kanagaratnam(1921)(post will follow). This made me confused
[Mucha wrote
[SHAN in a previous post wrote:
Kandy king is answerable to QUEEN OK. There was no such independent Kandy king after Rajasingan. Kangarathanam was WORKING FOR KANDY KING IN 1921. How frequent these Kandy kings did the so called census before? What was the Sinhala population in 1948 in the eastern province? What is now?
(Emphasis, mine).
In response to this I asked him: Do you still stand by this statement. If not, just say NO. Otherwise please give the name of the KANDY KING who answered to the Queen of UK. Also give the name of the Kandy King who ruled in 1921. )
This is how SHAN replied to the question I asked:
Europeans never had a massive population to be present and rule the country. They forced deals with the local ruler to do their business. If they were not agreeing rulers are changed or challenged. This is what I meant. Do you think that is independent?]]
My reply was
[PLEASE READ YOUR ORIGINAL POST AND THE WAY YOU WROTE WHICH MADE ME CONFUSED. I ASSUMED THAT YOU ARE REFERING TO THE LOCAL REPRESENTATIVE IN KANDY AS THE? KING.]
I raised one question back in 2005 about King Ellara. Where did he land from India and how did he get on to power?
Now, Rather than cherry picking, is it not a time for release his genuine facts and figures about Sinhala and Tamil in the N&E and make his lecture (Discussions not debate) more fruitful. |
|
Search All News and Discussions