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Buddhist monks given training to ensure peaceful co-existence in Sri Lanka
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Kulakottan
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Joined: Nov 2005
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LK Information  9 Aug 2006 07:58:11 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Gamarala,

Just a point of clarification:
You said:
The Fundemantal difference is, you believe, there was a Historical, Legitimate, Indepdent Tamil Kingdom in SL in the North and East, thus, Today's Tamils are entitled to autonomy in N&E based on this Ancient Tamil Kingdom


While I do believe that there were Historical Tamil Kingdoms, Independent or otherwise, I do not use them to justify autonomy or a federal solution. That is why I purposely said that:
I view and propose autonomy based on the current geo-political realities and conflict resolution prospective.


Therefore it is not appropriate to link the two statements by a 'thus'.
I also do not agree that when there is a dispute between two parties, one of the parties setting up yardsticks to define and measure 'legitimacy'. It should either be done by a neutral arbitrator or an acceptable world body.

Thanks
Kula
Edited By - Kulakottan - 9 Aug 2006 09:07:55 GMT
GamaRaala
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LK Information  9 Aug 2006 08:10:16 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Kula,
I do not use them to justify autonomy or a federal solution. That is why I purposely said that:
I view and propose autonomy based on the current geo-political realities and conflict resolution prospective.

Therefore it is not appropriate to link the two statements by a 'thus'.

Kula, if not for historical Tamil Kingdom, there is no other way to justify why residents of North and East provinces are 'SO SPECIAL' to have a right to semi-autonomy or self determination.

The current 'geo-political realities and conflict ' you refer is the terrorism waged by the LTTE, fueled by the Tamil Eelamists. Tamil Eelamists wrongly believe North and East are VERY SPECIAL provinces that those provinces are entitled to self determination.

LTTE/Eelamists claim Tamils have a 'DESIRE to self determination', and because of this 'DESIRE', they have a RIGHT to do so! The residents of the WP may have a 'DESIRE to self determination', but such desires do not make them have RIGHTS to do so. The same applies to North and the East.

I also do not agree that when there is a dispute between two parties, one of the parties setting up yardsticks to define and measure 'legitimacy'. It should either be done by a neutral arbitrator or an acceptable world body.


Kula, AS I TOLD YOU BEFORE, The Sinhalese Kingdom is LEGITIMATE in the same way Kingdoms of United Kingdom, USA, Norway or Thailand are LEGITIMATE. It is the same LEGITIMACY that applies to us and to them.

I did not define this concept brand new as you false claim; I apply the same LEGITIMACY that is applied in other Nation-states around of the world.
Edited By - GamaRaala - 9 Aug 2006 08:39:11 GMT
Muru
Joined: Mar 2006
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LK Information  9 Aug 2006 11:28:58 GMT  Report for Abuse  
In one hand, there is no point speaking about Veddas Culture since it is a culture common to any group of people relied on hunting.
I disagree with that, you cannot just lump together the Vedda culture, (whose antiquity on the island is second to none) with all other 'hunter cultures'. It is certainly much more than that.
On the other hand, Veddas culture is nothing but a sub-culture either of Sinhala or of Tamil, depend on which area they live.
Again I am not talking about the Veddas (the majority of them it may be) who have assimilated into the Sinhala and Tamil ways of life. I am talking about the Veddas who perhaps number only a few hundred, who still practice their old ways of living - it is these people who are on the verge of extinction.

The Vedda culture has been deeply affected by the government of Sri Lanka and may one day cease to exist. The few original Vedda that are still out there have changed dramatically. They no longer speak their native tongue and many other aspects of their lives have changed due to the laws they were forced to live under.


Today they are reduced to a few hundreds verging on extinction. Presently they are being evacuated from their traditional territories to agricultural land and very soon they would be an extinct ethnic group. Today, the identification of Veddas has become quite controversial for most of them have been absorbed into the main communities.


Veddas language, which is the most unique component of their culture is nothing but a dialect of Sinhalese (or of Tamil, again depending on the very factor).
Language is just one small facet of culture, and in the case of the Veddas it is certainly not their most unique component. In fact whilst Vedda language is perhaps more similar to Sinhala language, one could easily argue that Sinhala and SL Tamil cultures are more akin to each other than say Sinhala and Vedda cultures.

As such, if there is anything that links Veddas to those Hela People or Balangoda Man, it is nothing but any genealogical traits they carry in their genes. Then again, the problem is how genetically pure Veddas are? Dr. Richard Lionel Spittel, the person who has conducted the most extensive research on Veddas, reported that the last Vedda with pure Vedi blood from both sides of his parentage died in early 1920s.
Racial purity is a myth - lets get that straight. However, the Veddas are still genetically distinct enough from other Sri Lankan population groups for them to be regarded as a distinct race:

Figure 3 of Kshatriya G. K. Human Biology, 1995 v.67 pp.843-866
Genetic Relationships of the Sinhalese with the Tamils of India,
South Indian Muslims, Gujaratis, Punjabis, West Indian Muslims
Bengalis and Veddas based on the genetic distance matrix
(43 alleles controlled by 15 loci).

-- Sinhalese
-- --0.14-|
| -- Indian Tamil
----|
| |-----0.97---- South Indian Muslims
|
| -- Gujaratis
-----| -0.09-|
| | | -- Punjabis
-------| --2.56--|
| | -0.31---- West Indian Muslims
| |
| --------5.15------------ Bengalis
|
|
------ -----|
|
|-------11.27--------------------- Veddas

This above dendrogram shows that the Sinhalese are furtherest away from the Veddas than any of the other Indian groups studied. This is surely enough to show that the Veddas are 'genetically distinct'.

The Veddahs are the indigenous people of Ceylon... The character of the skull bear very striking resemblances to that of the Australian aboriginal, and interestingly enough, to that of the bushman, but as in so many other characters the closest affinities of the Veddahs are with the Australoid tribal people of central and southern India; craniologically there seems to be no difference between them whatsoever. In this connection it should be recalled that the island of Ceylon is merely a detached portion of the southern mainland of India.
Source: Introduction to Physical Anthropology
Edited By - Muru - 9 Aug 2006 15:02:15 GMT
shan
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LK Information  9 Aug 2006 13:22:36 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Some one disappeared from the forum for months

Lot of speculations about his disappearance

Most believed person AWOL ran out of ammunitions. However person appeared at the barracks and claimed and justified his absence saying that his absence was in good faith and he brought new armoury to his regiment. As usual to SLA's tradition this AWOL also was welcomed and expectation was running high.

On the contrary person went AWOL hasn't come with new armoury but had some vivid dreams about his wishes while he was hibernating.

So we can wish him good luck with his dreams

Seismology is not what you learn in Monks University in Kelania. Confusion has some correctable causes and can be corrected but obsession you live with it.
Edited By - shan - 9 Aug 2006 14:41:30 GMT
Muru
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LK Information  9 Aug 2006 15:07:27 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Machan Muchalinda, from the Deraniyagala article you mentioned there is strong evidence that the Veddas are in fact the 'cultural descendants' of Balangoda man.

Fa Hien-lena has yielded the earliest evidence (at ca. 37,000 BP) of anatomically modern man in South Asia 4 , followed by Batadomba-lena at 31,000 and 18,000, Beli-lena at 16,000, Fa Hien-lena at 6,900, Bellan-bandi Palassa at 6,500 and Fa Hien-lena again at 4,800 BP. These human remains have been subjected to detailed physical anthropological study and IT HAS BEEN AFFIRMED that the GENETIC CONTINUUM from at LEAST AS EARLY as 18,000 BP at Batadomba-lena to Beli-lena at 16,000 BP to Bellan-bandi Palassa at 6,500 BP to the recent VADDHA aboriginal population is REMARKABLY PRONOUNCED (ibid:486-9; Kennedy et al. 1987; Hawkey 1998; Kennedy 2000; the earlier material from Fa Hien-lena is too fragmentary for such comparative study).


Meanwhile, Balangoda Man continues to be a useful working concept, referring to the island's late Quaternary humans. He appears to have settled in practically very nook and corner of Sri Lanka ranging from the damp and cold High Plains such as Maha-eliya (Horton Plains) to the arid lowlands of Mannar and Vilpattu, to the steamy equatorial rainforests of Sabaragamuwa. The camps were invariably small, rarely exceeding 50sq.m in area, thus suggesting occupation by not more than a couple of nuclear families at most (id. 1992:351). THIS LIFE-STYLE COULD NOT HAVE BEEN TOO DIFFERENT FROM THAT DESCRIBED FOR THE VADDAS OF SRI LANKA, the Kadar, Malapantaram and Chenchus of India, the Andaman Islanders and the Semang of Malaysia (ibid.:412,451-7). They would have been moving from place to place on an annual cycle of foraging for food.


If the Tamilisation of the proto-Sinhala people of North-East Sri Lanka is tantamount to 'foreign invasion', then how would you describe the Aryanisation of the Hela people? According to history, the Indo-Aryan speaking colonisers clashed with the Veddas and the other natives and drove them to the dry zones.

In conclusion, the original inhabitants of Sri Lanka were the Veddahs, who have had little admixture with the Sinhalese and possibly none with the Tamils. The Veddahs are distinct because they were confined to inhospitable dry zones and were hardly influenced by the neighboring inhabitants.

Edited By - Muru - 9 Aug 2006 15:09:56 GMT
GamaRaala
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LK Information  10 Aug 2006 00:39:23 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Muru,

According to your argument, the owners of the WHOLE world are Tanzanians and Ethiopians. :-) :-) Such is the level of confusion you have in your mind :-)
New DNA evidence suggests 'African Eve', the 150,000-year-old female ancestor of every person on Earth, may have lived in Tanzania or Ethiopia.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2909803.stm


Many Eelamists argue and counter argue on the basis of DNA and blood heritage. Unfortunately for them, No modern nation-state including Sinhalese do not claim their right to SL on the DNA or blood lines.

Sinhalese nation emerged in Sri Lanka, it did not arrive from Sinhala-Nadu of India as some Eelamist pundists would like to concoct.
Veddha people and Rodi people lived as distinct groups of peoples within the Sinhalese Kingdom, under the rule of the Sinhalese Kingdom.

There was no such thing as Sinhalese arriving from Sinhala Nadu invading and fighting with native Vedda or Rodi Kingdoms and chasing them away. This has to be contrasted with Cholas arriving from South India invading and fighting with the Native Sinhalese Kingdom.

Vedda people in biological terms have a history of many ten thousand years. In cultural terms, Vedda people's history is comparable to Sinhalese Cultural history. Vedda people believe their culture was originated from Kuveni and her children.

Rodi people, like Vedda people, are a only a People Group, not a nation. There never was a Rodi Kingdom nor a Vedda Kingdom. From the antiquity, Veddas and Rodis were subjects of the Sinhalese Kingdom.
Edited By - GamaRaala - 10 Aug 2006 00:40:35 GMT
Kulakottan
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LK Information  10 Aug 2006 00:56:15 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Gamarala,
Rodi people, like Vedda people, are a only a People Group, not a nation. There never was a Rodi Kingdom nor a Vedda Kingdom. From the antiquity, Veddas and Rodis were subjects of the Sinhalese Kingdom.


I too belive that the name 'Sinhalese' was referred to a dynasty in the ancient Lanka. However, today a group of people or race is called Sinhalese.

Having in mind that you call the Tamils as the desandants of Cholas,
Could you tell me who are the Sinhalese people, the genetic and physical profile of a typical Sinhalese?
Also would you enlighten me with the profile of the Rodi people.

Kula
Edited By - Kulakottan - 10 Aug 2006 01:45:33 GMT
Mucha-linda
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LK Information  10 Aug 2006 01:12:48 GMT  Report for Abuse  
GAMAYA,

I thought you are one of those (crazy?) people who, among many things, studied law in addition to Eng.

-Mucha
GamaRaala
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1006
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LK Information  10 Aug 2006 01:54:08 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Kula,
Having in mind that you call the Tamils as the desandants of Cholas,

SL Tamils are CULTURAL descendents of South Indians Tamils. Some of them may be by blood related to Cholas while others may be more recent migrants brought for Tobacco cultivation while some other may be Sihalese assimilated into Tamil culture. Nevertheless, Sinhalese are not worried about SL Tamils being cultural or biological remnants of South Indian invaders. SL Tamils, as a race, enjoy the due rights in SL.

Could you tell me who are the Sinhalese people, the genetic and physical profile of a typical Sinhalese?

Is there genetic profile for typical Englishman, Norwegian or American?
Sinhalese is a culture and a nation, as much as English or Norsk is. If there is ta ypical, genetic and physical profiles for English culture/nation or Norsk culture/nation, using the same measurements one can evaluate Sinhalese culture/Nation.

Also would you enlighten me with the profile of the Rodi people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodiya
Edited By - GamaRaala - 10 Aug 2006 01:56:57 GMT
Mucha-linda
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LK Information  10 Aug 2006 02:16:57 GMT  Report for Abuse  
Dear SHAN,

You are not supposed to write a reply to every post. If you cannot find any facts to defend your arguments (most of which are destined to fail), you are entitled to be silent. You do not need to show everyone that you have run out of facts.

In fact, this is not the first time I gave you this friendly advice. Cannot you remember, you once argued that Sinhalas have never fought Portuguese, until I gave truck loads of evidences about all the wars that were taken place at places like Randeniwala, Danthure, Mulleriyawa etc. Even at that instance, I advised you to be silent without becoming a disgrace to all the Tamil intellectuals.

The problem here is nothing but lack of seismological evidence for sunken land masses, and not if that is taught in University of Kelaniya or if Muchalinda has ran away for months.

Muchalinda's departure was a well informed one and he had no outstanding arguments at the time.

Also, do not worry about Muchalinda's new weapons cache. He will use it when time arose, until you all will withdraw from your arguments on ***Humanitarian Grounds***(heh..heh).

-Muchalinda

PS: Dear Ladies and Gentlemen, this would be the last post Muchalinda will make in this regards.

PS2: MURU, your prayers will be addressed in due courcse.

.
Edited By - Mucha-linda - 10 Aug 2006 04:01:32 GM
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