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Thomians dilute Royal glory
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MarkLevinson
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 1 Jun 2007 07:47:37 GMT Report for Abuse
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Maitreya,
What is your thought on Bose , Onkyo and Karmon Kardon?
Soooory To Barge in!!!
Here I am going to ruffle some feathers as I have done before....BOSE sell rubbish with clever marketing, Onkyo used to make some decent amps, especially home theatre ones, didnt check out lately.....Harmon-Kardon dish out down to earth stuff with less gimmicks but letely they've lost to kinds of Yamaha/Denon it seems!!!
As for BOSE....DO NOT BUY!!
Swear to god that I can make and already made far better loudspakers than BOSE in my time!
Check this out.....then you will understand what commercial manufacturers do to sell their rubbish!
http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html |
pluto100
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 1 Jun 2007 10:31:02 GMT Report for Abuse
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As for BOSE....DO NOT BUY!!
Swear to god that I can make and already made far better loudspakers than BOSE in my time!
Ohh, Marky,
Pls don not put me off. I'm on the verge of receiving one. After seeing this I wish I had'nt logged on. Glad my other half does not sight this site. |
MarkLevinson
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1 Jun 2007 10:38:55 GMT Report for Abuse
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Pluto,
Sorry.....but I am fed up with people who argue how good that brand is, simply because its popular and paid a samall fortune to onwn a lifestyle system......
So, no arguments...this article comes up with test results....its ALL there
http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html |
hellogoodbye
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 1 Jun 2007 12:40:45 GMT Report for Abuse
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Maitreya,
i checked out Soavo 1 from Yamaha, it looks impressive.
Few things, these speakers are build to a price, and aimed at a particular segment of the market. Although they have done some research and made use of technology to source modern cone-materials, magnets, coils etc, it's neither a cost-no-object design nor a project with the objective of making the best speaker possible - unlike the case with NS1000. When they made the NS1000s they set out to make the best speaker possible. All the Jap Comps were in the go-getter phase, nothing was impossible, beryllium which is very hard to work with; they invented a vacuum-deposit process to make the tweeter and mid-range domes, vaporized the beryllium and then deposited onto a mould. The whole loudspeaker was so expensive to make, for many years they sold it at or below cost and in the end discontinued (after 20 odd yrs), not because there wasn't a market but because it was so expensive and difficult to make (the same story as the Dunlop 200G tennis racquet that Steffi Graf used to play with.) Now they make a speaker with just a beryllium tweeter - JM-Lab Utopia - and the cost is over $50000, I think.
But Yamaha used the reputation of the NS1000 later on to sell a load of crap speakers, that's how they made the money. Also what they found out is, that although many recording engineers used NS1000 as monitors, not many people were using such accurate speakers in their homes to listen to those recordings. So they actually went out and build a cheap crap speaker that resembles a ghetto-blaster - the NS10M - and many recording studios still use them!
What is your thought on Bose , Onkyo and Karmon Kardon?
If you are asking me about their current range I wouldn't have a clue because they interest me in the least. For two reasons, most modern companies now make crap (cant say 'junk' lest I offend the love of my life) dictated by the accountants for maximum profit not for quality, and secondly most of the companies who made great products in the past now have new owners who are milking their 'good name' for all what its worth. Most of the past great British HiFi companies are now owned by two Chinese brothers, but except for a few, thankfully they still maintain some resemblance of quality. The products are designed in the UK and manufactured in China. I have heard good things about a few products of Denon and Marantz.
Onkyo used to be a high quality Jap brand (but not as renowned or top notch as Nakamichi,) was relatively expensive, so didn't sell in large numbers, but I don't know a stand-out product of their's. Harmon-Kardon used to be a very good brand, now taken over by someone, one time it was owned by Teledyne or such I think, they might still be the owners. Anyway they used to make some top valve stuff, the Citation series of amps, quite rare, I have seen them but never had a chance to listen. If a good one comes on the market I'll grab it, but these days most of the things that come on the market are crapped-out. There was a guy called Dr Matti Otala who used to work for them or who did research for them, and their hallmark was that they didn't band-limit their gear. The highs used to go well past 200kHz or higher because they claimed (supposedly what Otala found out) that truncating the frequency response had an adverse effect on the audible range beneath. But then there were other brands of amps that truncated just above the 20kHz audible range and sounded equally good. It just depends on how the design is implemented, often times than not 'good sound' happens by accident.
I wrote the post below sometime ago on this thread to someone else, it sort of sums up my feelings about Bose and few other things.
the new 'Electronic' versus the older stuff
There are two main issues here; sound-reproduction and HiFi.
Mere sound reproduction has no aspirations to HiFi. As many manufactures (home-theatre, Dr Bose etc) have discovered, one can play with the sound spectrum and give a very good illusion of 'good sound.' So psycho-acoustics have come of age rather than HiFi, I suppose. Unfortunately some well known 'HiFi manufactures' aren't immune from this game either.
High Fidelity, as the name implies is highest fidelity to the original. One can argue 'what is the original,' when so many tricks are played in a recording studio. Hence my beef about using 'electronic music' for evaluating HiFi equipment. The only true judgement is how well they reproduce an acoustic instrument, or a simple voice without any 'electronic enhancements.' In my view, unfortunately not many pass this test.
No one knows what gives a Stradivarius it's unique sound. And no one can still replicate it's sound, although modern scientific methods have been used to try and pry the secret. In the same way no one knows why some ancient HiFi gear sound the way they do. But what is certain is, like a Stradivarius, someone will part with good money to buy them if and when one comes on the market.
To sum up psycho-acoustics, some years ago BBC engineers build a speaker for their news vans - the BBC LS3/5a - which was mainly to monitor the voices they were recording. Theory suggests that a good (neutral) speaker should have a linear response in the audible range (20Hz - 20kHz,) right? To overcome the handicap of very small cabinets, what the BBC engineers did was introduce two humps in the frequency range (this is actually designed and build in, not a mistake), I think somewhere around 120Hz and a little higher up. The speaker sounds so natural and real with human voices and female vocals that there is a cult around it, hence those tiny speakers are very expensive, and a lot of people manufacture them under licence; just Google and see. That's psycho-acoustics for you. So much so for neutrality!
If I am not mistaken, the Wilson Watt-Puppies (it's the actual name of the bloody thing, now that one gal has mistaken herself for a Yamaha, hope GG's pooch wont lose her mojo here) is an extension of the LS3/5a theme by adding a bass module. The top looks very similar.
Early on, Bose made some alright speakers (if you care for speakers firing in all directions,) the 901s weren't actually bad, I have listened to them but not a speaker I felt like buying. As you might already know Dr Bose was at MIT and was involved in some research into acoustics, hence all those funny ideas of speakers firing in all directions. Their modern life-style systems are unmitigated rubbish. A cynical attempt to grab all what he can, good luck to him.
Edited By - hellogoodbye - 1 Jun 2007 13:07:53 GM |
hellogoodbye
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1 Jun 2007 12:45:08 GMT Report for Abuse
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Most of their modern stuff is junk
Who? are you talking about me?
Wow.... Ruwani!
Clever girl, how the dickens did you guess?
Always had suspicions, about those damn Yamahas. Hope you can play music in Quadraphonic for the good ole' hubby.
So go and fly a kite, Sour Grapes.
Not kites, but ships actually.... Since the day I first saw your face on that photograph, I've been doing nothing but building ships.... a thousand ships to launch. I suppose, now it means our love is not worth two dead fish eh? Boo-hoo.. |
hellogoodbye
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1 Jun 2007 12:48:43 GMT Report for Abuse
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Maitreya,
they always point out when i make sexist comment
Holy cow... don't you ever mention body, heart and soul ever again, let alone communion. Look the mess you got me into. All the gals are coming out swinging at me, have to do a verbal Ali rope-a-dope to let the gals punch themselves out. If GG comes out floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee then the troika is complete! From now on, not even a word from me about .... what's it, what do you call them? Wont even mention. It's a man's man's world for ole' HGB. |
MarkLevinson
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1 Jun 2007 13:22:54 GMT Report for Abuse
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Dr Bose was at MIT and was involved in some research into acoustics, hence all those funny ideas of speakers firing in all directions. Their modern life-style systems are unmitigated rubbish. A cynical attempt to grab all what he can, good luck to him.
Amen!! |
penn
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 1 Jun 2007 16:28:07 GMT Report for Abuse
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Maiteriya
CanAm pizza ? never heard of it. Is it a big franchise
Well I guess it only here.Thought they were big, It an Indian Frachise.They use Indian delicacies.
HGB
I've been doing nothing but building ships
'Pirates of the Caribbean' you are very adventures . |
Piyal
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1 Jun 2007 19:46:05 GMT Report for Abuse
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ML,
Is that Dr. Bose who colaborated with Einstein for Bose-Einstein Thoery ? or someone else,... My hunch is both are the same...
Do you know Bose is an Indian ?... |
Piyal
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5 Jun 2007 00:53:56 GMT Report for Abuse
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ANeeeeee Apey Long Lasting Thread ekata mokada mae wune,.... ?
What happened to our long lasting thread,... Once T-60 was dead by a T-56,.... everything collapsed,.....
Some Einsteins were talking about high tech stuff, and the life of the thread went away with that,....
Some people promised me that they will take care of this when I am away for the vacation,... Here it is dying even before I go for vacation,.......
Shame on you...... |
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