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Hindus set to convert to Buddhism
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Ariyalai_SB
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Joined: Apr 2005
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21 Dec 2006 15:13:03 GMT Report for Abuse
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Dear Kula,
I appreciate your reply; if what you have said is correct, I have no qualms about accepting it that I got it wrong, unlike some people we see on these forums. I am working with some Indians at present; when I showed them an administrative form that is completely in Sinhala, they unanimously deduced that it resembled the Malayalie scripts.
When we debated this issue back in 2005, Magha purposefully compared both scripts, and wrote the following I hope that he would not mind me quoting him here:
Magha posted this on 9 Oct 2005 21:28:13 GMT - http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2005/9/3766_18.html:
I did a comparison of malayali alphabet and Singhala alphabet and one does not need a microscope or a mangnifying glass to find the simillarities of the alphabets. When scholars ,educated people and even a pseudo intellectual like myself see this very clearly, only chauvinists ,hypocrites and bigots may find it difficult to digest that Malayali alphabet has simillarities with Singhalese. I tired my best to bring the Singhala letter which come close to the Malayali letter place in the appropriate column but there may be mistakes since I am not an expert. Singhala letters are more round in shape than Malayali and some times look like the mirror image or upside down.
Unfortunately I found out the Singhala font can not be pasted on the web site. I recommend you to compare the singhala alphabet very carefully , there are amazing resemblence especially with folowing singhala letters 'sha, tha, ha,ya ,ma, na,pa ,ka , kha, ga and other letters like Ra, da are mirror images and the rest of the letters show the same pattern but incomplete unlike the Singhala letters.
Magha further said on 9 Oct 2005 21:43:22 GMT:
Please go to following web sites copy and paste Malayali alphabet and Singhala alphabet then if you have the Singhla font ( kaputa) you type the singhala letter cut and paste next to the malayali letter . You can do you own comparrison.
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/m/ma/malayalam_script.htm,
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/sinhala.htm
I said:
we have shown you that Sri lankan peoples, LANGUAGES, religions, apart from Islam and Christianity, all originated from India
If the Sinhala language has the Indic languages at its base, this could have only been possible with various groups of Indian people cohabiting. There is no question that the Sinhala language evolved in Sri Lanka taking the present form.
Looking at the Sinhala as a language, one has to eliminate all loan words from Prakrit/Pali and Tamil to analyze to identify the origin..
Kula, if one takes out all of those words, I dread to think what would be left! Hence, my assertion that peoples, languages, and religions originated from India. If one wants to pick a hole on this, one is very welcome. |
Kulakottan
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21 Dec 2006 15:18:48 GMT Report for Abuse
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Dear Ari,
Kula, if one takes out all of those words, I dread to think what would be left!
I would say no more!!
I was trying to post a document but I am not an expert on computers, so I failed.
Please visit the followin site, you will get a good idea of the evolution of the Tamil script:
http://acharya.iitm.ac.in/mirrors/vv/literature/tscript.html
Thank you for the information on the comparison of the Malayala and Sinhala alphabets. It will be interesting to spend some time on it.
Perhaps the inclusion of Grantha letters in malayalam might have some similarities to Sinhala. This might open up another possibity that I was considering where there may be a strong influence of Pallava Grantha tradition on the evolution of the Sinhala script.
Kula
Edited By - Kulakottan - 21 Dec 2006 15:30:08 GMT |
GamaRaala
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21 Dec 2006 15:31:24 GMT Report for Abuse
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Ariyalai_SB,
I am working with some Indians at present; when I showed them an administrative form that is completely in Sinhala, they unanimously deduced that it resembled the Malayalie scripts.
This is a FANTASTIC scholarly research output from Ariyalai_SB ;-) :-) Ariyalai then went on to cook some more evidence on his own to imagine Malayalis and Telungu speakers reading Sinhalese Daily newspapers :-) That must be his 'scholarly approach'.
Kula, if one takes out all of those words, I dread to think what would be left! Hence, my assertion that peoples, languages, and religions originated from India. If one wants to pick a hole on this, one is very welcome.
Oh really? ;-) The BIGGEST HOLE is, where has the ubiquitous /ae/ vowel come into Sinhalese? Which Indic languages have this vowel? Why is it missing in Indic languages, but prominent in Sinhalese?
Which Indic language has the word 'Hela' originated from? ;-)
How about 'Anagathaya' & 'Nonagathaya'?
Heeyak-Puh! (Don't worry about its origin, it is coming from Maani's column)
There is no question that the Sinhala language evolved in Sri Lanka taking the present form
Mister, that is why Sinhalese are native to Sri Lanka and Tamils are not!. Sinhalese originated in Sri Lanka and Tamils originated in Tamil Nadu. And they are native to where they originated in.
You said to Kula,
I appreciate your reply; if what you have said is correct, I have no qualms about accepting it that I got it wrong, unlike some people we see on these forums.
Really? :-) So how about accepting that it was WRONG for you to cook up an imaginary evidence that 'Malayalis reading Sinhala without prior knowledge'? ;-)
Edited By - GamaRaala - 21 Dec 2006 17:16:09 GMT |
KURAL
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21 Dec 2006 18:22:35 GMT Report for Abuse
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Sinhala language is 'UNIQUE'.
It evolved from Pali to the modern Sinhala spoken today.. But how is the real question, because there is a lot of difference between these two languages.
Pali is the cultural and religious language of Theravada Buddhism. As Sanskrit is the cultural and religious language of Vedism.
The prince Vijay and the troop of about hundred soldiers, the First 'Sinhalas', were Theravada Buddhists and they didn't spoke the Sinhala spoken today. But what is sure is that Sinhala language 'born' with Pali and was shaped later by the neighboring and migrant languages, like Telugu (just compare the alphabet), Tamil (the closest), Malayalam (which separated from Tamil in about 6 th a.c), Portuguese and English !
Sinhala is an unique mixture, as each dialects are unique !
Sri lanka is the origin of the modern Sinhala language but Sinhala is not THE native language of Sri lanka !
MANY are very confused by that.
Edited By - KURAL - 21 Dec 2006 18:23:17 GMT |
Mucha-linda
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21 Dec 2006 22:14:49 GMT Report for Abuse
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You may think that you have managed to dodge my claim that you misled me; I shall bring this up at every opportunity.
Dear ARIYALAI,
By all means, PLEASE bring that up on every opportunity you get, and I will definetely remind you in case you forgot that.
You are a man with a big ego; basically, you do not have the best interest of Sri Lanka at you heart, it is all about your image all along!
Just out of curiosity, is this also a view held by your *most participents*.
It is a dent to your scholarly approach, but it is only an approach; since, you are not really a scholar, you do not need to loose any sleep over it!
Your desperation is evident. You do not need to prove it over again my friend.
-Muchalinda
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ThinKing
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22 Dec 2006 00:37:18 GMT Report for Abuse
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Ariyalai,
when I showed them an administrative form that is completely in Sinhala, they unanimously deduced that it resembled the Malayalie scripts.
If you show a Sinhalese writing (script to a Burmese, not a cat a person from Myanmar) ;) ) they would recognize much more characters than a malayali I feel. I certainly can recognize more letters 'look like' Sinhala letters in Burmese script than in Malayalam script. I have no idea if the letters sounds the same or not but they certainly looks the same.
and probably there are several other scripts which will look like Sinhala script given that they all had a same(or simmilar) root.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Burmese_alphabet.png
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U1000.pdf
http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0D80.pdf
If anyone like to compare more scripts...
http://www.unicode.org/charts/
Edited By - ThinKing - 22 Dec 2006 01:25:29 GMT |
ThinKing
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22 Dec 2006 01:20:04 GMT Report for Abuse
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Kula,
The prince Vijay and the troop of about hundred soldiers, the First 'Sinhalas', were Theravada Buddhists and they didn't spoke the Sinhala spoken today.
Is this true?
As far as I know, Buddhism came to Lanka sometime after Vijaya's arrival. during the time of Devanampiya 'Thissa' reign isn't it?
Also about the language, it's probably true to many (any?)languages isn't it? that 2000 or so years before it was not the same language(format) they spoken as they speak today?
I think Sinhala would have developed from what ever the language they spoken at that time(I dont know magadhi or what ever).
Kula one more question, this Prakrit, Sanskrit, were they only scripts or languages(as in prople can speak) as well?
Edited By - ThinKing - 22 Dec 2006 01:24:26 GMT |
Mucha-linda
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22 Dec 2006 01:31:24 GMT Report for Abuse
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Dear KULA,
It is sad that I had no time to contribute more to this interesting discussion, as I have become quite busy with my livelihood (something unusual to happen around this time of the year).
As such, let me be brief on this.
From the discussions I had with the number of Archelogical Professors, it appears that it is in the Sigiriya inscriptions that Sinhala scripts is known to have apperaed first.
KULA, I think the above is an underestatement, unless you have taken it out of context. I am not saying that it is wrong. In fact (as far as I know), Senarath Paranavithana too held a similar view, but with a vital explanation.
As you may know, Sinhala syllabary is more or less a *process* than a static entity (as in the case of most other natural alphabets). It developed through many phases and each single character had its own development (i.e. some characters have adopted their current form quicker than certain others characters). However, thanks to numerous inscriptions discovered so far, this development is quite clear and well established, in case of Sinhala syllabary.
What you have been told by those archaeological professors should be understood under the above context. Yes..Sigiriya mirror wall inscriptions carry the first scripts that are significantly closer to the current form of Sinhala syllabary. However, the fact is those scripts on Sigiriya Mirror wall have not come from nowhere but were resulted by a gradual development.
This is very much the case of Tamil syllabary. Even though all South Indic scripts originated from Brahmi, every alphabet went through its own course of development. As a result, Brahmi scripts found in Sri Lanka is somewhat different to those found in India, even though archaeologists may generally call all the inscriptions belonging to early centuries are written in Brahmi. However, in strict academic contexts, archaeologists still take extra measures to admit if it is Brahmi Sinhala or Brahmi Tamil or etc.
The best example I can give in this regards is the famous Vessagiriya Inscription found at Abhayagiri Viharaya in Anuradhapura. It is written in Sinhala Language using a character set which is now identified as Brahmi-Lipi characters. Yes, it is still called Brahmi because it is more closer to that than to Sinhala. However the fact is those Brahmi is somewhat different to Brahmi in South India belonging to that period from which the Tamil syllabary is descended (you may also refer to what I wrote on Vallipuram Inscription and especially to the way *Dha-yanna* is written there).
I agree with you on the Grantha (and Pallava) influence on shaping the Sinhala characters.
BTW, do you know when Tamil writing was first started using *Pullis* (the sign that uses to suppress the inherent vowels associated with consonants). As far as I know Pulli (or *Halanthaya* or *Hal kireema* in Sinhala) denotes a key difference between the South Indian Brahmi descendents (like Dravidan alphabets and Sinhala) from their Sanskritized northern counterparts (like Devanagari). It is said that writing in Halanthaya has become more or less a style during the times of Sigiri Mirror wall writings (Ex. Nil kat rol = Nil Katrolu, Watkol = Wetakolu etc).
-Mucha
.
Edited By - Mucha-linda - 22 Dec 2006 01:41:58 GM |
GamaRaala
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22 Dec 2006 01:38:10 GMT Report for Abuse
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ThinKing,
Vijaya and his seven hundred 'mates' were neither Sinhalese nor spoke Sinhalese. If they had been Sinhalese and had spoken Sinhala, 'Sinhala' would have become a language and ethnic migrated from India. Sinhalese language has evolved from Hela languages spoken in Sri Lankan people as well as languages of migrants from India and later, from Europe. /ae/ sound, (3rd letter of the alphabet) is a prominent sound in Sinhalese, but obviosuly absent in any of the Indian languages that is thought have influenced Sinhalese. /ae/ is hence thought to be deriving from pre-sinhala Hela languages. Bear in mind that even the words 'Hela', 'Helu' and 'Elu' have no etymological relationship to any of the Indian languages.
On the contrary, Tamil language and the culture migrated from South India.
MUCHA:
Do the words 'Agatha' and 'Anagatha' used in Vessagiri inscription mean 'Pemini' and 'Nopemini'? I have heard these words are Hela words.
Does it mean 'Anaagatha (future)' has been derived from 'Anagatha' meaning 'not yet arrived'?
Edited By - GamaRaala - 22 Dec 2006 01:43:27 GMT |
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