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Hindus set to convert to Buddhism
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GamaRaala
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 818
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23 Nov 2006 03:38:00 GMT Report for Abuse
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Lula,
You have so far still FAILED to prove there existed a Tamil race with their own kingdom /language/culture prior to 13 CAD. The challenge is still open. It is unfortunate that your promised truckload is never going to arrive. :-) Without proving this, there is no point arguing based on this hypothesis.
Keep this in mind: According to Prof Leslie G, Sinhalese is the identity that ruled Anuradhapura, not Tamil!!.
There were ZERO native Tamil (not invasions) kingdoms in Sri Lanka prior to 13 CAD. Just because Tamils lived in Sri Lanka does not get them 'native rights'. Jews lived in Europe for 2,000 years, but Jew culture is not given native rights in Europe. The same goes for Tamil Culture.
Secondly, there is no point in repeating that 'Tamil Culture evolved in Sri Lanka'. You already accepted that cultural ancesstors of SL Tamil culture arrived from India! Anton Balasingham already accepted that Sri Lankan Tamils are 'Ethnic Indians'!!
A race is native to where its ancestors originate. IF CULTURAL ANCESTORS OF TAMILS ORIGINATED IN INDIA, THEN THE TAMIL CULTURE IS NATIVE TO INDIA, ** not to its neighboring country nor to subsequent countries they migrate to.**
Thus, Sri Lankan Tamils, Australian Tamils, Canadian Tamils or Malaysian Tamils are not given native cultural rights in respective countries.
Edited By - GamaRaala - 23 Nov 2006 08:19:57 GMT |
GamaRaala
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23 Nov 2006 03:40:13 GMT Report for Abuse
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Kula,
Reading is different from debating my dear!!
So you meant Lula should read mine, but not respond to me? :-)
I can say I am happy that you broke your own advise. ;-) |
Kulakottan
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23 Nov 2006 03:41:00 GMT Report for Abuse
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Hi Pera,
I know and that is why I kept my mouth shut until UlHuq forced me to come out!
Poor Bala is sidelined anyway and no harm done!!
Cheers,
Kula |
Kulakottan
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23 Nov 2006 03:43:45 GMT Report for Abuse
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GamaRala,
When things improve or you see sense in what anyone says, changing your own view is no harm! |
GamaRaala
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23 Nov 2006 03:54:50 GMT Report for Abuse
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Kula,
I do not want another Ellaalan-Duttagamani conflict to be branded as a Tamil/Sinhalese clash when its not!
Kula, it is Tamil Eelamists that brand Elara-Dutu Gemunu war as 'Tamil-Sinhalese' war. These Elemists desperately want to find some relation to a historical ruler to claim 'Tamils also ruled Sri Lanka'. There is no continuum between Elara's culture to modern SL Tamils, but for Tamil Ealamists, that does not matter :-) |
GamaRaala
Joined: Apr 2005
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23 Nov 2006 04:10:28 GMT Report for Abuse
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Kula,
When things improve or you see sense in what anyone says, changing your own view is no harm!
What of mine has improved for last 3-4 days? You initially branded me as a 'mota raala' and advised to ignore me.
So, something of mine has to have improved during last 3-4 days for you to change your own views.
Edited By - GamaRaala - 23 Nov 2006 04:11:07 GMT |
Mucha-linda
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23 Nov 2006 04:24:26 GMT Report for Abuse
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MURU,
Thanks for your patience. Lets go one by one.
MURU, why should we need to have such archaeological evidences to establish that Tamil speakers were nothing but mainly a migrated lot. We are not speaking here about a massive migration that occurred between two continents. Please do not exaggerate the facts (like our friend SHAN always does). The issue we are dealing here is a migration of a relatively small population across a fairly narrow straight. Even in the worst case scenario, what we are dealing here is a migration of mere 750,000 people from a massive 55 Million population across a 21 miles wide straight.
For the above statement I made, you replied,
Mucha I will not elaborate on how simplified, outdated and unscientific the above view you have just expressed is. It simply goes against the established practices of 21st century archaeology, anthropology and history.
MURU, it is good if you can first ELABORATE how simplified and unscientific my above view is, rather simply saying it is outdated for no apparent reasons. If you think that 21st century archaeology, anthropology history etc are against the above view, please admit when and where it contradicts.
My point is very clear. In the worst case scenario, we have an absolutely massive population of 55 Million living on a land mass of 50,000+ sq miles on one side and a tiny 750,000 population living on a small peninsular of 999 sq miles just some 21 miles across a narrow straight. If anyone argues that that 750,000 people have nothing to do with that 55 Million, and if anyone tries to reduce the striking similarities both the communities have (in their language, religion and culture in general) to a sheer influence or to a mere coincidence, I wonder if any sane person would buy that.
If any Eelamist still insists that those on the peninsular are Natives amidst all those striking similarities to that 55 Million living just 21 Miles away, I would rather urge them first to believe that those remains of the Homo erectus balangodensis found in Bellanbendi Pelessa belongs to a Muslim.
Muru, let me clarify one more thing. To my knowledge, I am no way disputing with what our good professor recently rephrased. I accept the fact that social transformation might have played some role there. BUT I ALSO INSIST THAT SOCIAL TRANSFORMATIONS CANNOT HAPPEN OUT OF THE BLUE.
In light of what you have just stated, it is not at all surprising to see people erroneously equate the Sinhalese with 'Aryans', even after over 50 years of the 'Aryan' myth being jettisoned by all serious scholars.
You might not have seen the reply I gave to LULA on the same issue sometime ago. No sane Sinhala person believed that we are ethnic Aryans. But it was the racists Tamils who thought that we have such a belief (Dr. Stanislaus Balasingham coined this as Mahavansa mindset not knowing what we believe). What Bikku Mahanama said in his celebrated work is that we are an Aryanized stock. He attributed the beginning of that Aryanization process to King Vijaya. I have serious doubts if we have truly been Aryanized to the extent Bikku Mahanama wanted us to. Nonetheless, that fact is Bikku Mahanama has nowhere hinted that we are full blooded ethnic Aryans.
Therefore, please do mind that if any scholar has jettisoned a myth some 50 years ago, it must be a myth that never existed.
MURU, I certainly have no idea what made you to quote those three citations from page 52 of Dr. Indrapalas book, plus the findings of Gautam Kumar Kshatriya and that interview given by Dr. Sudarshan Seneviratne (Hillariously enough you have even highlighted certain sentences as if I am against those). Seemingly, you do not know what our view point is, something you will easily come to know if you can read my archived posts. However, for the time being, I can surely tell you that I, in general, have no serious differences with those citations you have made.
Let me briefly clarify our viewpoint for your benefit. Nativity in the context we are speaking, is not something decided by genetics, but by the cultural aspects (do not overlook this point, this is nothing but the bottom line of nativity). That is why Queen Elizabeth the Second has been made to the title of Defender of Faith of Church of England amidst her genealogical connection to Catholic Germans. That is also why Nayakkar Prince Periya Sami was accepted as the legitimate heir to the Sinhala Throne.
-Muchalinda
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Edited By - Mucha-linda - 23 Nov 2006 04:30:31 GM |
Mucha-linda
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23 Nov 2006 04:25:34 GMT Report for Abuse
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About ANAIKODDAI Seal:
Many people fail to mention (for obvious reasons) that the earliest inscription found in the Jaffna peninsula (From the Early Iron Age chief found in Anaikoddai in 1980) suggests a Tamil linguistic influence.
YES, people usually fail to mention the Seal found at Anikoddai, because it is not an inscription, but a seal. Seal is not something fixed, like an inscription inscribed on a slab or on a cave entrance, but something that can be taken from place to place like a coin. That is why people used to ignore it as it can never be an evident to the presence of any permanent settlements.
It was none other than racist Tamilnadu Tamils who made a *chronicle* out of this single piece of evidence which should otherwise have gone unnoticed among many other coins, seals etc found around the island belonging to other civilizations like Roman, Greek, Persian etc.
The person who gave an undeserved significance to this otherwise insignificant seal is a Tamil called R.Mathivanan. It is good for the readers to know the level of forgery done by these so called scholars.
The letters (pictograms) on this seal were in a form of Megalithic symbols. However, according Mr. R. Mathivanan some of those are also in Tamil Brahmi, a fact people like Dr. Indrapala is yet to finalize. Mr R. Mathivanan further argues that this seal is bilingual with the explanation * just to enable those who were accustomed to read the old Indus script, the metal seal of Jaffna was allowed to be in biscript*.
Nonetheless, in par with other similar inscriptions found around that period (in Brahmi as well as in those Megalithic Symbols), it is established that this is written from Right to Left (like the Arabic scripts). In that sense, what is written is Ko-Ve-Ta. As said (by good profesor), Ko in Tamil is King, in which case Veta shold be his name. However, R. Mathivanan deliberately read it from Left to Right and argued that what is written is not Ko-Ve-Ta but Ti-Vu-Ko or Tivu Ko which is the King of the Island (of Lanka?!!)
This R. MAthivanan in fact has a history of forging and a history of interpreting Megalithic Symbols as of Tamil Brahmi. He is also alleged to have deliberately assigning wrong dating for the historical artifacts.
In a book co-authored jointly with M. Ramachandran, Mr. R. Mathivanan depicts a Calender of The Great Tamil Civilization commencing at 4500 MILLION YEARS AGO!
To give a much worse example, he once deciphered some symbols written on a wall in Santhal village in Bihar saying it is in Tamil Language written in Megalithis Script. However, he later himself admitted that they were written by the villege priest and he even had a photograph of the priest writing those on the freshly painted wall!.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO SET OUR FACES AGAINST SUCH UNSCIENTIFIC MISREPRSENTATIONS OF THE PAST
YES, BY ALL MEANS.
-Muchalinda
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Edited By - Mucha-linda - 23 Nov 2006 04:58:49 GM |
Mucha-linda
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23 Nov 2006 04:51:59 GMT Report for Abuse
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KULA,
I do not want another Ellaalan-Duttagamani conflict to be branded as a Tamil/Sinhalese clash when its not!
Of course Mister, it was not a clash between a Sinhala King and a (Sri Lankan) Tamil King, but a clash between a Sinhala King and a Chola King. But KULA, peopole like LULA wants us to believe that Elara (Ellalan) is a king of a long standing Eela Tamil people who lived here since antiquity.
There seems to be some improvement:
Defintely in your case, my friend.
-Muchalinda
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GamaRaala
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 818
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23 Nov 2006 05:04:14 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha,
According to Eelamists like Lula, 'Demadas' were 'clearly identifiable Tamils' even before the Tamil Identity emerged. This 'clear identification' was not based on any language or cultural reasons, as it appear from Lula's failure to respond.
When they write 'Demada' or 'Malabar', they don't forget to include 'Tamil' within brackets.! That is how Lula clearly identifies 'Demada' or 'Malabar' as Tamils!!
Should we follow this approach and start writing 'Naaga(Sinhala)', 'Yaksha(Sinhala)' or 'Balangoda Manawa(Sinhala)'?
Edited By - GamaRaala - 23 Nov 2006 09:01:05 GMT |
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