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Hindus set to convert to Buddhism
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shan
Senior Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1599
Member Profile
21 Nov 2006 15:00:57 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Hey Lula

Stop man. Oh God, I nearly fell of my chair.

Now bit of a Yoga. Good to laugh. Have a nice day.
Edited By - shan - 21 Nov 2006 15:01:44 GMT
GamaRaala
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 818
Member Profile
21 Nov 2006 23:28:20 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Lula,

I challenged you to substantiate your (wild) claims.
What happened to the evidence for the so-called 'Muti-something' Anuradhapura Kingdom? :-) Didn't you yet find any evidence that 'Clearly identifiable native Demadas' ruled the Anuradhapura Kingdom ?


You REPEATEDLY failed to take up the challege. You FAILED to unload a SINGLE EVIDENCE to support your wild claim, but since you don't have courage to admit you were wrong, you continue responding like below
YES, that's what Prof. Indrapala says in his new book. Its ONLY U$.14.

Mister, if he says so, why not quote him to the forum, so that even UlHaq can see :-)

TAKE THIS AS A CHALLENGE. YOU DO NOT HAVE PROOF TO subtantiate your claims. If you think you have, quote them for the discussion. If you do not have, just say some book has the answers and you will not quote it :-) :-)

Obviosuly, you do not have proofs and will not be able to take up this challenge :-)

Sounds hurtful, isn't it Lula. Duka-thamai :-)
Edited By - GamaRaala - 21 Nov 2006 23:50:04 GMT
GamaRaala
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 818
Member Profile
21 Nov 2006 23:40:22 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Ariyalai_SB,
Well, well, I must have touched a raw nerve on this person; it is not surprising is it?

You indeed touched a nerve of compassion -- the nerve that gets touched when I see a servile dog who always get kicked in the gut by its masters.

Your predicament in nothing different; you get 'culturally kicked in the gut' by your Western Christian Masters. You live everyday of your life in the West, serving the West, while your Tamil culture is being DISCRIMINATED by the very same Western Masters you serve!.

They tell you that 'you are equal', but they NEVER give EQUAL STATUS to Tamil Language or Hindu Culture in the West. There are no Tamil Medium Public Schools nor Mahasivarathree or Thaipongal or Deepwali public holidays (unlike X-mass or Easter).

It is no wonder that you cultivate a feeling of insecurity when you and your children's Tamil culture is given SECOND CLASS treatment in the West, everyday!

As a guesture of compassion, I can remind you that you can relocate to Sri Lanka and enjoy the better rights for Tamil Culture. Imagine this, you can send your children to a Tamil medium public school in Sri Lanka. Mahasivarathree/Thaipongal/Deepawali are a Public holidays as much as X-mass, Good Friday, Vesak, Posan and Eid-ul-Fitr -- how does that sound? :-)

Alternatively, you can keep living in the West while being DISCRIMINATED, after all, your masters will throw you few more dollars at you. Perhaps, that is more imporant to you than equal rights for 'Tamil culture' :-)
Edited By - GamaRaala - 21 Nov 2006 23:52:44 GMT
Mucha-linda
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2619
Member Profile
21 Nov 2006 23:49:01 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Mucha does not believe in short cuts to solve the problem in his fatherland.


Do you know what is the problem in his fatherland, Australia?


The ANAlyst who turned a blind eye to a whole article, but to the portuguese surname of the Nationalist Author, is again trying to score points on cheap issues.

Aus is neither MUCHA's fatherland nor his Motherland.

However, it is good if those ANAlysts know that Australian Constitution does not recognize all its citizens equally, even though no one find it a problem (with the possible exception of Gajaluxmi Paramasivam :).

Amen!!'

.
Mucha-linda
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2619
Member Profile
22 Nov 2006 00:18:52 GMT  Report for Abuse   
SHAN,

I am neither ignoring you nor practicing any *Yoga excercises*. However I prefer to wait for Muru to fine tune and present any of your arguments if he finds those valid.

BTW, let me kindly tell you that you have not recognized the point I riased pertaining to the last two citations you made from my previous post.

Let me clarify. Both you and MURU argued that there exists NO archaeological evidence to the effect of any mass migration to (OR a mass exodus from) Jaffna. Both of you took it as a point to prove that Tamils were living there since antiquity. What all I did there is comparing that argument against the situation of Muslims.

We have almost no archaeological evidence whatsoever to justify how the 8% of Muslims of modern day Sri Lanka came into existence. However, in case of Tamils we at least have Historical evidence for some Tamil migration that has occured in the forms of invading armies, hired soldiers, consorts, prisoners and sometimes as invited Rulers from South India.

Amidst all those historical evidences, you still insist that Tamils were there since antiquity, based solely on the absence of any archaeological evidence to a mass migration within a short period of time. The point I raised is, if the mere lack of such evidence to a mas migration could warrant the Tamils to be recognized as a group of people who lived here since antiquity, should that also not the case of Muslims, whose presence cannot even be justified through any form of migration like consorts, invading armies, etc.

SHAN, I think I made myself clear. I have no plans to make any further clarifications to you, and as said, let me wait for MURU to reply.

-Muchalinda

.
Edited By - Mucha-linda - 22 Nov 2006 00:20:07 GM
Ariyalai_SB
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1131
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22 Nov 2006 09:37:33 GMT  Report for Abuse   
GaamaRala,

They tell you that 'you are equal', but they NEVER give EQUAL STATUS to Tamil Language or Hindu Culture in the West. There are no Tamil Medium Public Schools nor Mahasivarathree or Thaipongal or Deepwali public holidays (unlike X-mass or Easter).


All I can do is to feel very sorry for you. I picked the above statement, out of all nonsensical statements you through-up, because it speaks volume about the mind-set of people like you! Perhaps, one day you may become a true Buddhist and see wisdom; then I again, I seriously doubt it!

I also feel sorry for your mental weakness that allowed the Sinhala Buddhist Chauvinism to consume you in full!

Once again, I tell you loud and clear: Tamils in Sri Lanka are as native as the Sinhalese regardless of religious affiliations. If you do not grasp this fundamental truth, you have lost the plot; you will take to your grave, the bigotry.
GamaRaala
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 818
Member Profile
22 Nov 2006 10:12:01 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Ariyalai_SB,

Tamils in Sri Lanka are as native as the Sinhalese regardless of religious affiliations.


You also admitted on 7 Oct 2005 21:56:05
* The Tamils of Sri Lankan do not dispute that their ancestors originated from India. *


Mister, a race is native to where its ancestors originate. If cultural ancestors of Tamils originated in India, then the Tamil culture is native to India, ** not to its neighboring country. **

Sinhalese is a culture originated in Sri Lanka (not in Tamil Nadu/Bengali-Nadu/Kerala-Nadu), hence Sinhalese is the culture native to Sri Lanka.

Tamils, as persons, like everyone else, is native while Tamil culture is not.

Just because Tamils live in Sri Lanka does not make it a 'native culture'. Get this in to your head: Jews have lived in Germany and France since 4th Century -- but does NOT make Jew-culture NATIVE to Germany or France. Hebrew is not an official language in France nor in Germany.

While your western masters tell you that they give you equal rights, your Tamil culture is DISCRIMINATED. You can beg them, but they will never make Tamil an official language nor Hindu religious days public holidays. Simply, your Tamil culture IS GIVEN second class treatment.

This must be really hurting your ego? :-) Or, you are happy about the extra dollars you are thrown at?

In one hand, you encourage your children to learn your Western masters' language and live in peace with them.

On the other hand, you entice other Tamils' children in Sri Lanka to do the complete opposite, driving them into a blood bath. This is the real HYPOCRISY of people like you, and the bane on the Tamil society.

It is unfortunate that your insecurity mindset caused by being discriminated everyday by the Western masters (you choose to serve for few more Dollars in lieu of equal status for Tamil culture) paved way to cultivating sheer hatred against Sinhalese and deny their due rights.
Edited By - GamaRaala - 22 Nov 2006 11:21:32 GMT
Muru
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 488
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22 Nov 2006 11:21:01 GMT  Report for Abuse   
MURU, why should we need to have such archaeological evidences to establish that Tamil speakers were nothing but mainly a migrated lot. We are not speaking here about a massive migration that occurred between two continents. Please do not exaggerate the facts (like our friend SHAN always does). The issue we are dealing here is a migration of a relatively small population across a fairly narrow straight. Even in the worst case scenario, what we are dealing here is a migration of mere 750,000 people from a massive 55 Million population across a 21 miles wide straight. We do not need to have any archaeological evidence to believe this, do we?

Mucha I will not elaborate on how simplified, outdated and unscientific the above view you have just expressed is. It simply goes against the established practices of 21st century archaeology, anthropology and history. In light of what you have just stated, it is not at all surprising to see people erroneously equate the Sinhalese with 'Aryans', even after over 50 years of the 'Aryan' myth being jettisoned by all serious scholars. You need to read Colin Renfrew's 'Archaeology and Language: The Puzzle of Indo-European Origins' publication.

p52 - The Evolution of An Ethnic Identity - K.Indrapala
Whatever the languages spoken in the pre-historic period, what is of importance for a proper understanding of the early phase of Sri Lankan history is the recognition that the speakers of these prehistoric languages were never annihilated by newcomers. Archaeologists have so far not met with evidence of either a mass migration of people at the end of the mesolithic period or annhilation of the existing population. The arguments of anthropologists about a biological continuum from prehistoric times lend support to Paravitana's assertion that 'the vast majority of people who today speak Sinhalese or Tamil must ultimately be descended from those autochthonous people of whom we know next to nothing'. NO DISPASSIONATE STUDENT OF SRI LANKAN HISTORY AND ARCHAEOLOGY CAN ESCAPE THIS CONCLUSION.'

The spread of new cultural influences, including that of new languages, has often been taken as an indication of new migrations and the displacement of earlier inhabitants. ANCIENT HISTORIANS AND HISTORICAL LINGUISTS ARE NOW INCLINED TO REJECT SUCH THEORIES

The mesolithic culture that prevailed in Sri Lanka until about 1000 BCE was one that was common to the whole SISL region. There was a free flow of humans and their cultural traits across various parts of this region. The whole region shared a common technology. EVEN THE LANGUAGES SPOKEN BY THE MESOLITHIC PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN COMMON TO THE WHOLE REGION

*GK Kshatriya's genetic analysis actually shows that the Sri Lankan Tamils share more genes directly with the Sinhalese (over 55%) then with the Indian Tamils (as well as having a significant Bengali component). This evidence goes against your conjectures and points to a process of language replacement rather than of multiple migrations from Tamil Nadu.

Interview with Dr. Sudharshan Seneviratne:
It is now argued that Brahmi script came with trade and religious carriers, if you may call them so, the missionaries. But one also has to look at the pre-existing - what I would call the megalithic symbols - that may have had phonetical sounds. The discovery of the famous copper ring at Anaikoddai from the early historic context that (the copper ring) had both the megalithic symbols and the Brahmi symbols, the Brahmi symbols reading a Dravidian term. There are doubts whether it is Kovendha or Kovendhan. Both refer to the identity of a ruler or chieftain. But what is important is there seems to be a phonetical value in these (megalithic) symbols. For instance, the Brahmi ka is often found among the megalithic symbols as well. There are other symbols, which are found (both) in the Brahmi script and the megalithic symbols.
I don't want to emphasise this too much because we should be aware that ideas were borrowed. None of us can take the exclusive credit of 'inventing' a script or language because all these were nurtured by shared cultures. This is a fact we have to bear in mind. If we push the exclusiveness far, we will tend to become parochial in the application of a wider spectrum of archaeological data that has distributed itself in a wide time and space context.
For you must remember that the megaliths found in south Asia have traits similar to those found on the coast in West Asia and may be even in north Africa. Black and red ware have been found from an earlier chronological context all the way from north Africa, West Asia and the late-Harappan context. We should not, therefore, get parochial about the 'indigenous' context of the megaliths.
It is unfortunate that the megalithic monuments happen to be one of the most racialised monuments in south Asia. I have mentioned in my keynote address and elsewhere about how this got entwined with the Dravidian identity.
Both 'Aryan' and 'Dravidian', being language terms, have been used in such a vulgar manner as to identify non-existent races and this racial connotation have been extended as a marker to identify archaeological monuments, which derails the entire intellectual concept of reading the past.

Edited By - Muru - 22 Nov 2006 11:55:13 GMT
Kulakottan
Senior Member

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2582
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22 Nov 2006 11:42:37 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Hi Ariyalai,

There seems to be some improvement:

Tamils, as persons, like everyone else, is native while Tamil culture is not.


Prakrit/Pali is foreign to Sri Lanka!!
Tamil is foreign to Sri Lanka!!!

But saampaaru is native to Sri Lanka!!

Kula
Muru
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Member Profile
22 Nov 2006 11:50:53 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Many people fail to mention (for obvious reasons) that the earliest inscription found in the Jaffna peninsula (From the Early Iron Age chief found in Anaikoddai in 1980) suggests a Tamil linguistic influence.

Here is what Indrapala said: p325
The name Koveta is not Prakit. It is comparable to such names as Ko Atan and Ko Putivira occuring in the contemporary Tamil Brahmi inscriptions in South India and has to be read as Ko Veta. IT IS TO BE TAKEN AS EARLY TAMIL, although one cannot rule out the possbility of it being some other Dravidian language. Ko in Tamil and Malayalam means 'King' and in no doubt refers to a cheiftain here.

My point is the process of language replacement has been happening in the whole of SL on a number of different times in the last 3000+ years. In this case, the Dravidian language in use would have initially been replaced by Prakit and then finally Prakit would have been replaced by Tamil in the long run. None of these transformations should be based on unscientific assumptions that there has to be a population change.

And now a mention to the his-story writers like Gama from Indrapala:

p14
There is no need to give any prominence to the writings of pseudo-historians and fringe archaeologists who have emerged on both sides of the ethnic divide. Readers will understand if these writers have not been taken seriously in any discussion in this work. As Sudharshan Seneviratne has rightly pointed out, 'such lumpen intellectuals...belong in the dustbin of history'. But there is the need to be concerned about their misrepresentations of history. Some of these are based on misinterpretations of significant literary and archaeological sources of ancient Sri Lankan history. IT IS IMPORTANT TO SET OUR FACES AGAINST SUCH UNSCIENTIFIC MISREPRSENTATIONS OF THE PAST

Edited By - Muru - 22 Nov 2006 11:54:06 GMT
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