Lanka Newspapers

Sri Lanka News Updates with Discussions

Sri Lankan News & Discussions

Search All News and Discussions  

Return to LNP



This News Site:

Lanka Newspapers is the largest Sri Lanka News forum online. Thousands of Sri Lankans from around the world gather here daily to discuss current news events of Sri Lanka. Join Today!

Hindus set to convert to Buddhism
Full News Article
Page  < Prev   | 1  | 2  | 3  | 4  | 5  | 6  | 7  | 8  | 9  | 10  | 11  | 12  | 13  | 14  | 15  | 16  | 17  | 18  | 19  | 20  | 21  | 22  | 23  | 24  | 25  | 26  | 27  | 28  | 29  | 30  | 31  | 32  | 33  | 34  | 35  | 36  | 37  | 38  | 39  | 40  | 41  | 42  | 43  | 44  | 45  | 46  | 47  | 48  | 49  | 50  | 51  | 52  | 53  | 54  | 55  | 56  | 57  | 58  | 59  | 60  | 61  | 62  | 63  | 64  | 65  | 66  | 67  | 68  | 69  | 70  | 71  | 72  | 73  | 74  | 75  | 76  | 77  | 78  | 79  | 80  | 81  | 82  | 83  | 84  | 85  | 86  | 87  | 88  | 89  | 90  | 91  | 92  | 93  | 94  | 95  | 96  | 97  | 98  | 99  | 100  | 101  |  >Next
Mucha-linda
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2619
Member Profile
15 Nov 2006 03:03:26 GMT  Report for Abuse   
LULA,

Silence denotes acceptance, I already assumed that you have no counter arguments for those.


I USUALLY do not take silence as a way of acceptnce (especially in forums like this). For example, it could be due to a *Tachnical Problem*. However, IF THAT IS WHAT YOU BELIEVE about being silent, it should be safe for me to assume that Vallipuram Gold Plate Inscription is written in Sinhala due to a presence of Sinhala *Dha-yanna* to which there exist no similar syllable in Tamil, since you have gone silent over that. Among many other things, it should also be alright to assume that King Devanampiya Thissa is not a Tamil at all.

* Challenge # 1:

Prof. K. Indrapala?s book, ?The evolution of an ethnic identity? is entirely based on the group of people called DEMADAS (the Tamils in Sri Lanka from C.300 BCE to C.1200 CE). He has provided a truck load of evidence.


What I am precisely asking you is to quote me a single evidence out of that so called TRUCK, that indicates that there lived a group of people called DEMADAS in Anuradhapura Kingdom, with an identity DIFFERENT to that, for example, of CHOLAs.

THE CHALLENGE STILL REMAINS OPEN.

* Dr. Leslie Gunawardena

Prof. Leslie Gunawardena says, Sinhala was a name adopted by a ruling linage group for whose origin the lion myth had been created. He says, contrary to popular belief, in ancient times the Sinhala identity was associated primarily with the dynasty which ruled Anuradapura. He goes even further by saying that, not only the Sinhala kingdom but also the Sinhala ethnic identity (race) in Sri Lanka emerged only after the 12CAD.


Lula, people can say what ever they want, and I am not surprised, if some of those have got some post graduate studies completed. I do not know if you have studied anywhere beyond your BSc (Eng). I am neither saying that earning a Doctorate is an easy thing NOR saying that Leslie Gunawardena has earned his Doctorate in the same way Mervyn Silva has earned that. But the fact is if someone has some dedication, time, money and some understanding about a chosen subject, getting a PhD is not a humongous task.

For example, to my knowledge, our friend NALEEN has the basic capacity to earn a Doctorate. Can you imagine what Dr. NALEEN would say, for example, about the Portuguese Era in Sri Lanka having earned a Doctorate. Do you expect me to buy whatever he says in such an event, simply because he has a Doctorate.

Therefore Lula, what matters to me is not *essentially* what educational qualifications one might have earned, but what evidences and arguments one may produce to support an opinion.

It is on the above ground I find problems accepting Dr. Gunawardena?s opinion as it is. First of all, let me categorically say it is not a problem EVEN IF Sinhala identity first emerged in association to a particular dynasty, and not essentially to a group of people, as long as there was a set of people who assumed that identity later.

Having said that, there are other reasons that prevent me agreeing with Dr. Gunawardena, and you do not need to have a PhD to understand this. Bikku Mahanama wrote Mahavansaya in 5 CAD. In that he has clearly linked the Sihala identity to a group of people and not to a particular dynasty.

Let me quote from Codrington?s translation.

But the king Sihabähu, since he had slain the lion (was called) Sihala and, by reason of the ties between him and them, all those (followers of VIJAYA) were also (called) Sihala.


King Vijaya, being a descendent of Sinhabahu, could become a Sihala, and there cannot be any problems about that. But how come those 700 followers became Sihala, without even being descendents of Sinhabahu if Sinhala happened to be an identity of a Dynasty, and not of a set of people.

That is not all. Let us for a moment *assume* all that mentioned in Mahavansaya is a bull-removed- created by Bikku Mahanama. However, given the nature of Mahavansa, it remains a fact that there existed a Sinhala Buddhist Consciousness even as early as 5 CAD, which is some 7 centuries before 12 CAD.

Not only that, there are many Kings mentioned in Mahavansaya who neither has any connection to Vijaya?s clan NOR have identified as invaders by Bikku Mahanama. The best example is King Vasabha, the first in the Lambakanna Clan. Why on earth Bikku Mahanama mentioned about a Lambhakanna in his Mahavansaya which according to Dr. Gunawardena should be a legacy of the Sihala clan commenced by Wijaya.

Lula, the real tragedy is not that. Dr. Leslie Gunawardena himself has claimed so many occasions that Mahavansaya is nothing but a *national epic of the Sinhala Buddhists*. But he does not have a clue why some one wrote a book in 5 CAD about a national identity that emerged only after 12 CAD.

* About Multi-Ethnic Anuradhapura and Mono-Ethnic Kandyan and Jaffna Kingdoms:

If you can read both Indrapala and Leslie Gunawardena?s latest writings, you will get to know the difference.


Seemingly, this has become your latest EXCUSE. Being a person who read both the persons, can you please give me a single point that made Anuradhapura, a Kingdom that was also ruled and lived by people other than Non Sinhalas, becomes Multi Ethic when the Kandyan Kingdom that was again lived and ruled also by people other than Sinhalas, becomes a Mono-Ethnic.

CHALLENGE 1:1 ALSO STILL REMAINS OPEN.

* About Pali

You are still missing the point I raised there, if not pretend sleeping. The problem here is not if what Sinhala Buddhists believed about Pali is correct or wrong. The issue is if Pali became a sacred language after its usage in canonical work, of if it was used in those work because it was considered sacred, no matter how correct that belief about its sacredness.

-Muchalinda

.
Edited By - Mucha-linda - 15 Nov 2006 03:08:57 GM
Mucha-linda
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2619
Member Profile
15 Nov 2006 03:15:30 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Oh..some people who once declared that they have no intention to participate in this discussion, are now seemingly walking all that distance to a Cyber Cafes to read the very discussion.

We all knew that he is someone with no self-respect or shame. But I never expected him to set live examples like this. Anura Bandaranaike is 10 times better than him.

AMEN!!

.
Mucha-linda
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2619
Member Profile
15 Nov 2006 03:26:59 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Dear MURU,

There is a truckload of new information that Indrapala has in his new book that contradicts some of his earlier statements. Copying it all would be a laborious task.


Time is not in favour of me to lock in with you in a lengthy discussion. However what I am asking you is to give me a single evidence out of that TRUCK which made him to change his previous opinion over Vallipuram Gold Plate Inscription. People usually do not make new interpretations without having new evidence. What I am precisely asking is just one of those new discoveries he might have made since then.

Copying it all would of course be a labourious task. But what I am demanding is a single evidence to that effect. That cannot be a labourious task.

I know Lula has been quoting from it extensively, so why don't you just save time and read it for yourself.


No, LULA is not quoting that extensively. He is just repeating the same excerpt again again, which is nothing but an open-ended statement with no specific value.

Remember, what I am aking is just to unload one out of that TRUCK.

-Muchalinda

.
Edited By - Mucha-linda - 15 Nov 2006 03:54:32 GM
Mucha-linda
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2619
Member Profile
15 Nov 2006 04:33:02 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Dear READERS,

Thousand apologies!! I cannot stop quoting this good Professor Karthigesu Indrapala from his 1965 PhD Thesis which submitted to The University of London. We all have heard both MURU and LULA saying that there are TRUCK LOADS of new evidences in this good Profesors new book. It is good if anyone can unload a single evidence from that TRUCK that made him to change his following opinion.

The foregoing evidence points to the inevitable conclusion that in the Anuradhapura period, and possibly till about the twelfth century, there were Buddhists in the Jaffna peninsula. Although it may appear reasonable to presume that these Buddhists were Sinhalese like those in other parts of the island, some have tried to argue that they were Tamils. While it is true that there were Tamil Buddhists in South India and Ceylon before the twelfth century and possibly even later, there is evidence to show that the Buddhists who occupied the Jaffna peninsula in the Anuradhapura period were Sinhalese. We refer to the toponymic evidence which unmistakably points to the presence of Sinhala settlers in the peninsula before Tamils settled there. In an area of only about nine hundred square miles covered by this peninsula, there occur over a thousand Sinhalese place names which have survived in a Tamil garb. (page 273)


-Muchalinda

.
Edited By - Mucha-linda - 15 Nov 2006 04:39:30 GM
GamaRaala
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 818
Member Profile
15 Nov 2006 08:23:55 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Lula,
CC: Mucha

Mucha asked you on 15 Nov 2006 03:03:26 GMT,

* About Multi-Ethnic Anuradhapura and Mono-Ethnic Kandyan and Jaffna Kingdoms:

Being a person who read both the persons, can you please give me a single point that made Anuradhapura, a Kingdom that was also ruled and lived by people other than Non Sinhalas, becomes Multi Ethnic when the Kandyan Kingdom that was again lived and ruled also by people other than Sinhalas, becomes a Mono-Ethnic.


Lula, you previously quoted Leslie Gunawardena as below: 13 Nov 2006 16:43:22 GMT
Leslie Gunawardena says, contrary to popular belief, in ancient times the ** SINHALA IDENTITY ** was associated primarily with the ** DYNASTY WHICH RULED ** Anuradapura.


In your answer to Mucha, please explain the 'Non-Sinhala rulers of Multi-something Anuradhapura Kingdom' when the 'Sinhala DYNASTY' was the rulers Anuradhapura Kingdom. ;-)
Edited By - GamaRaala - 15 Nov 2006 08:51:37 GMT
dumindak
Senior Member

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1818
Member Profile
15 Nov 2006 08:51:39 GMT  Report for Abuse   
A person laughs when he wants to admit, but does not have guts to say, that he is wrong.
Edited By - dumindak - 15 Nov 2006 08:52:55 GMT
LuLa
Senior Member

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2316
Member Profile
15 Nov 2006 14:24:10 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Dumb-in-dark,

A person laughs when he wants to admit, but does not have guts to say, that he is wrong.


LuLa has already engaged in arguments with this GonRaala and realized the fact that it is a total waste time. Lula do not have time to waste feeding punnakku to a GonRaala who comes up with very silly arguments (may look rock solid to some) and is famous for repeating the same questions over and over like a broken record.

Right from the beginning of this thread, Lula has said that, he prefers to confront with Moras rather than with Kanayas. If a Kanaya tries to pretend to be a Mora, LuLa can only laugh.

Now, I presume that you are not a Dumb-in-daylight.

For those who do not know what is Lula, Kanaya and Mora.
Lula is a kind of fresh water fish or rather lives in the muddy water, its slimy and slippery, and always a pundit among other fish.
There is a saying in Sinhala that,
Lula nathi walata kanaya pandithaya meaning, Kanaya (another fish that lives in muddy water) becomes a pundit when Lula is not in the ditch. I selected my handle as LuLa due to these special reasons. Mora means a shark.
Sorry pals, I cannot remember the Tamil equivalent of Lula, a very slippery fish, the shape of an eel, mostly lives in muddy water.

Edited By - LuLa - 15 Nov 2006 14:44:09 GMT
Muru
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Member Profile
15 Nov 2006 15:32:18 GMT  Report for Abuse   
there is evidence to show that the Buddhists who occupied the Jaffna peninsula in the Anuradhapura period were Sinhalese. We refer to the toponymic evidence which unmistakably points to the presence of Sinhala settlers in the peninsula before Tamils settled there. In an area of only about nine hundred square miles covered by this peninsula, there occur over a thousand Sinhalese place names which have survived in a Tamil garb.


Mucha-Linda, Indrapala's assertion now is that the dominant ethnic group in Jaffna at the time of the Vallipuram inscription were the Nagas, a group who regarded themselves distinct from both the Ila and Demela people. He has written a few pages on the Nagas of Nagadeepa (which literally means 'island of the Nagas') in his new book, and seems to be basing his theory on the literary evidence (the Pali chronicles, the ancient Tamil literature etc).

The Nagas were the first people to be settled in the peninsula (during the iron age from South India) and were partly responsible for bringing in the megalithic culture - therefore they have to be taken as the indigeneous people of the peninsula. (the Nagas were also found on the opposite coast in TN - the Sangam literature is testament to this, however they were soon on their way into assimilating and becoming Tamils).

An EIA chief was found in Anaikoddai in 1980, with a Dravidian name inscribed on his signet in Brahmi (Ko-venta - Ko means chief in the Dravidian languages). There was also some non-Brahmi symbols found on the chief. It is apparent that the Nagas had their own distinct language (it could have been a Dravidian or Austroasiatic tongue) which we will probably never ever know about due to it being a pre-literate era. It is also possible that there was another Dravidian language other than Tamil in use at the time in Nagadeepa during the EIA. However, what is apparent is that there was a clear Dravidian language influence at the time in the peninsula - be it old Tamil or another language.

The Nagas were then put under the process of sankritisation (helped undoubtedly by their conversion to Buddhism), however with the rise of strong Tamil dynasties and traders during the 5th-9th centuries the Nagas got slowly Tamilised. There would have been a competition between the different languages, and Tamil would have had the upper hand over Prakit due to the Tamil traders forming the elite in the society in the North at the time (just as how the Prakit speaking traders from India formed the elite in the south of SL).

By the 9th century, Tamil would have been the dominant language spoken in Nagadeepa. The written records of this time attest to this according to Indrapala.

For instance, we don't argue that 'Balangoda Manawaya' or 'Nagas' or 'Yaksha' were 'Sinhalese'
Gama what are you talking about???? You are claiming that the people of Jaffna in 100AD regarded themselves as Sinhalese and not as Nagas! The Sinhala identity never reached full maturity in ALL parts of the island.
Edited By - Muru - 15 Nov 2006 15:33:30 GMT
Muru
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Member Profile
15 Nov 2006 15:35:27 GMT  Report for Abuse   
Mucha do yourself a favour and read Indrapala's new book. I promise you that you won't regret it!
Edited By - Muru - 15 Nov 2006 15:35:47 GMT
Muru
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 488
Member Profile
15 Nov 2006 17:39:31 GMT  Report for Abuse   
'Devanampiya' means 'Beloved of the Gods', it is similar to the term 'his majesty'. It was made popular by King Ashoka, who was often called 'Devanampiya'.
 Post a reply to this      E-mail this to a friend
Page  < Prev   | 1  | 2  | 3  | 4  | 5  | 6  | 7  | 8  | 9  | 10  | 11  | 12  | 13  | 14  | 15  | 16  | 17  | 18  | 19  | 20  | 21  | 22  | 23  | 24  | 25  | 26  | 27  | 28  | 29  | 30  | 31  | 32  | 33  | 34  | 35  | 36  | 37  | 38  | 39  | 40  | 41  | 42  | 43  | 44  | 45  | 46  | 47  | 48  | 49  | 50  | 51  | 52  | 53  | 54  | 55  | 56  | 57  | 58  | 59  | 60  | 61  | 62  | 63  | 64  | 65  | 66  | 67  | 68  | 69  | 70  | 71  | 72  | 73  | 74  | 75  | 76  | 77  | 78  | 79  | 80  | 81  | 82  | 83  | 84  | 85  | 86  | 87  | 88  | 89  | 90  | 91  | 92  | 93  | 94  | 95  | 96  | 97  | 98  | 99  | 100  | 101  |  >Next

(C) 2000-2007 www.lankanewspapers.com - Sri Lankan News & Discussions - Contact Us - RSS Feed - News Archives - src - FAQ
Welcome to the largest news forum on Sri Lanka. This is a discussion table for millions of Sri Lankans living around the world to express their thoughts on the latest Sri Lankan news events. This site is a powerful tool for all Sri Lankan ethnic groups to share information, knowledge and wisdom.