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Hindus set to convert to Buddhism
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LuLa Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2316 Member Profile
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26 Oct 2006 13:17:58 GMT Report for Abuse
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The fellow who is practicing to become a PRO has also got in, the one with nearly 3500 posts just greeting each and every member of this forum more than three times a day, hello bro, hello anna, hello akka, hello aiya and so on.
We should request Mr.Brown to have a chat room especially for such people instead of wasting the space in this forum. |
LuLa Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2316 Member Profile
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26 Oct 2006 21:55:51 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha,
You are continuing to amaze me with all these beautiful stories. You have shown enough capabilities to be a good fiction writer. Who knows, sometimes you may also become as famous as J.K. Rowling.
Jokes, jokes and jokes, a great comedian as well, with all these endless jokes. I am not pretending to be asleep, I am fully awake and enjoying all these fun.
So, right from the 12 CAD, with 22 Tamil kings ruling the Jaffna Patanam, only a very few people lived there, and also, without any identity.
The Dutch brought a 'considerable amount' of Tamil slaves from Coromandal and at the same time, a 'considerable amount' of Malabars also came in and settled. The 'considerable amount' of Malabars were more than the 'considerable amount' of Tamils from Coromandal plus the native population living in Jaffna at that time, so the Europeans called the entire population of Jaffna as Malabars, but later they all became Tamils (NOT Malabars).
If a Sinhalese, Eela Tamil, Indian Tamil and a Malabar are taking a steam bath without uttering a word, neither Muchalinda nor Lula or anybody living in this region can identify or differentiate them as so and so, but the super human Irish Capt. Robert Percival who was in Sri Lanka from 1797 to 1800 (just 3 years) was able to identify and distinguish the difference between the natives and the foreigners (Tamils and Malabars) and found that the foreigners are more than the natives.
Let me remind you that not only the Cholas and Pandyans (both Tamils) but also the Cheras (Malabars) came to Sri Lanka from time to time. During the 10th and 11th CAD, after the Chola invasion, both Tamils and Malabars settled in the entire Island from North to South, and they also converted the Buddhists (mostly Tamils and some Sinhalese) into Saivisim (Hinduism).
The Eela Tamil race originated in the North from these native Tamils, Sinhalese and those Tamils and Malabars who settled in the North. The Tamil language spoken in Jaffna is not Tamil but a combination of Tamil, Malayalam and Sinhalese. This dialect is unique only among the Eela Tamils.
The Dutch brought a large amount of slaves from Coromandal (some Malabars also would have come with them) to Sri Lanka especially to the South for Cinnamon, coffee and coco plantation and as domestic servants for the Dutch, some of them (NOT considerable amount) were also settled in the North for tobacco plantation.
The Europeans called them Malabars because they first landed in Malabar (NOT Coramandal) and later when they came to Sri Lanka, they found that the people in Jaffna were speaking a similar language like Malabar and also worshipping the same Hindu Gods.
Regarding MGR, when the British brought the Indian Tamil labor for the estates, they also brought some people from Tamil Nadu and Kerela for white collar jobs in the upcountry estates. Even today there are many Tamils and Malabars in the upcountry who are well educated; their forefathers did not come as estate labor. Since they were also working with the estate labor, all those Malabars also spoke the same Indian Tamil. Some families went back to settle in India and MGR was one of them. Even though he was a Malabar, since he was born and bread with the Tamils, he chose to go back to Tamil Nadu.
There is a new breed of pseudo-historians, I call them his-story tellers, these charlatans pick up something (general statements) from here and there (NOT based on facts), manipulate them (tailor to suit their point of view) and create wonderful stories. Such his-stories will turn into history only if the majority of the readers are Konda Bandapu Cheenu.
[Nativity]
The Tamil race originated in South India long before Lord Buddha was born.
The Tamil race (people) were living in Sri Lanka and worshipping those five Ishwarams of Siva long before Prince Vijay was born.
The recorded history of the island begins with Devanampiyatissa (252-212 BC), (Theva Nambiya Thesan, a name which has a real meaning in Tamil).
The Sinhala race originated in Sri Lanka by the amalgamation of native Tamils and others with a religion, culture and a large part of the language from North India.
The Eela Tamil (also known as Ceylon Tamil) race originated in the North of Sri Lanka (Tamil Eelam) by the amalgamation of native Tamils, Sinhalese and others with a religion, culture and a large part of the language from South India.
I am a member of the indigenous race (Eela Tamil) that originated in the Northern part of the country known as Tamil Eelam from the native communities that lived in the Island for thousands of years.
I am a native of this land (Tamil Eelam) where my race is the majority, and my ancestors have lived there for many centuries.
In other wards, I am a member of indigenous majority in my own homeland of Tamil Eelam, the contiguous territory of traditional Tamil habitation in this country, as identified by a census.
If you have invented a new meaning for the term Nativity, please let me know so that I'll try to see where I can fit in.
It should be pointed out that in both races which evolved in Sri Lanka, from the time of its origin, until now, a never ending continuous process of amalgamation, assimilation, naturalization, Sinhalization, Tamilaization, and all sort of mixing was going on within the region, sometimes little and sometimes large but never a 'considerable amount'.
[Regarding the Theoretician]
I am already dealing with one joker, so, I have no time to read any more jokes.
What I also know is that, these days they are trying to please the big neighbor because they have realized the gravity of the sins they have committed in the neighbors soil.
[Thesawalamai]
[Long Title of the Thesawalamai Regulation No. 18 of 1806 identifies in no uncertain terms that the domain of Thesawalamai as the MALABAR INHABITANTS OF THE PROVINCES OF JAFFNA.]
True, the Thesawalamai law was common for the entire Jaffna population. From the beginning, the Europeans started calling the Tamil inhabitants of Jaffna as Malabars and every law they brought in as for the Malabar inhabitants were actually for the Tamil inhabitants of Jaffna.
[Civil Administrator Sweethenham has also mentioned in no uncertain terms that the law imposed on Vanni by the sitting magistrate is related to the customary laws of Malabars.]
It goes like this,
The civil administrator, Sweethenham later observed (Minute dated 1879 quoted by J. P. Lewis] that the laws in the Vanni districts in respect of succession had relationship to the 'customs of the Malabars and the Mukkuvas' in the Malabar regions.
'Had relationship' does not necessarly mean that it was adopted from India.
[And you are saying that I am the one who is insane.]
Please check my post again. Edited By - LuLa - 26 Oct 2006 22:14:15 GMT |
GamaRaala
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 818 Member Profile
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26 Oct 2006 23:22:41 GMT Report for Abuse
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Q) Is SL Tamil a 'Native Sri Lankan Ethnic'? Or, are they an 'Indian Ethnic'?
A) 'ETHNICALLY WE (SL TAMILS) ARE INDIANS'
Q) Did this Ethnic originate in Sri Lanka?
A) 'OUR (SL TAMIL) ANCIENT HISTORY BEGINS IN INDIA.'
Ref:
Further on the deep relations between the Eelam Tamils and India, Balasingham said: 'Even before the Liberation Tigers were formed, India had shown interest in the Eelam Tamils. This is because even though we are in Eelam, ETHNICALLY WE (SL TAMILS) ARE INDIANS. OUR (SL TAMIL) ANCIENT HISTORY BEGINS IN INDIA.'
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7598_1670664,000500020002.htm
PS:
In adition to 'Ethnic Tamil community' whose ancient Ethnic history begins in India, there are 'Ethnic Brish', 'Ethnic Dutch' and 'Ethnic Portuguese' communities in Sri Lanka whose 'ancient Ethnic histories' begin in respective countries. Edited By - GamaRaala - 26 Oct 2006 23:25:38 GMT |
Shakti Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2691 Member Profile
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27 Oct 2006 01:34:03 GMT Report for Abuse
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Lula,
Besides, Lula prefers to confront with Moras rather than with Kanayas.
They are called 'mada-kanayaas' because they live in mud. |
Shakti Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2691 Member Profile
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27 Oct 2006 04:48:31 GMT Report for Abuse
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Lula,
This reminds me how tribal men in Sarawak catching orangutans. They keep some food (like bananas) and then hide and wait till the orangutan appears. When the orangutan appears they jump immediately and net the fellow.
I know you have kept some bananas and waiting, but so far the orangutan has not taken the bait...
(Only a gorilla came and I saw you chasing him off)
Dont worry. Be patient. I am sure orangutan is somewhere near by. He will definitely come soon. He cannot resist the flavour of bananas.... |
Mucha-linda Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 2619 Member Profile
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27 Oct 2006 04:58:32 GMT Report for Abuse
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LULA,
As in the case of my previous replys, let me reply only to what is worth replying.
So, right from the 12 CAD, with 22 Tamil kings ruling the Jaffna Patanam, only a very few people lived there, and also, without any identity.
The Dutch brought a 'considerable amount' of Tamil slaves from Coromandal and at the same time, a 'considerable amount' of Malabars also came in and settled. The 'considerable amount' of Malabars were more than the 'considerable amount' of Tamils from Coromandal plus the native population living in Jaffna at that time, so the Europeans called the entire population of Jaffna as Malabars, but later they all became Tamils (NOT Malabars).
First let me make a small correction. I did not mean that those inhabitants of Jaffnapatnam at the arrival of Europeans not had an identity. What I meant by *LACK OF IDENTITY* is the lack of their OWN identity. Of course, those who lived there had an identity. But it was more or less the identity of South Indian Tamils, but nothing else.
Lula, if the cr*p is cut, what you said next is pretty much what can be derived *beyond reasonable doubt*, based on the evidence available. So..yes I agree to that. In simple terms, the Coromandel and Malabar identities became prominent in Jaffnapatnam at the time, and Europeans generalized the way they identified the inhabitants accordingly.
The simple, harsh, bitter, undeniable and sad truth is that an identity of a nation/ ethnicity cannot be deprived or overlooked, as long as they are accounted to a considerable majority, provided the identity is their own. What went wrong with those inhabitants of Jaffnapatnam at the arrival of Europeans was they neither had their own identity nor accounted to a considerable majority.
Even if calling those native longstanding Tamils inhabitants of Jaffnapatnam as Malabars is a sheer Mistake (as you believe), then another question arise. Why on earth they called these same native longstanding Tamils of Jaffnapatnam as Coromandels in the same time. Did these longstanding natives look differently on different occasions? Amazing..huh..!!
Lula, the reason behind those Europeans to call your ancestors different names is something different. When they came to this region, they saw all these Malabars, Coromandels and those inhabitants of Jaffnapatnm as plane homogeneous people with the South Indian Tamil identity. They used the names Malabars and Coromandels to identify sections of that people affiliated to a particular region. In other words, Malabars and Coromandels were used to identify people along regional boundaries than along ethnic boundaries. That is why I told you that this is more about a LACK of IDENTITY than a MISTAKEN IDENTITY.
Let me remind you that not only the Cholas and Pandyans (both Tamils) but also the Cheras (Malabars) came to Sri Lanka from time to time. During the 10th and 11th CAD, after the Chola invasion, both Tamils and Malabars settled in the entire Island from North to South, and they also converted the Buddhists (mostly Tamils and some Sinhalese) into Saivisim (Hinduism).
Lula, I don?t know why you repeat these things, but I have absolutely no problems accepting that. However, the problem I have is about the following you said.
The Eela Tamil race originated in the North from *THESE NATIVE TAMILS*, Sinhalese and *those Tamils* and Malabars who settled in the North.
Once small jokes like Eela Tamils are left aside, the problem I have is who are these *THESE NATIVE TAMILS* if what you meant by *those Tamils* are Cholas and Pandyas. Lula, your hypothesis has seemingly moved one step ahead. So, according to your latest version, there was a native Tamil population in Sri Lanka who are more native even than your native Eela Tamils.
The Tamil language spoken in Jaffna is not Tamil but a combination of Tamil, Malayalam and Sinhalese. This dialect is unique only among the Eela Tamils.
This is very true. But the fact is, no mater what you said, it is still considered as a dialect of Tamil. This itself shows who has contributed most in its development. If it is unique or not to your Eela Tamils is not a point here (Sinhala spoken in down south is also unique to those live there). Having said that, let me also remind you that if that is the case, then you are also indirectly admitting that Batticaloa Tamils are not Eela Tamils, given the differences of the Tamil they speak.
The Dutch brought a large amount of slaves from Coromandal (some Malabars also would have come with them) to Sri Lanka especially to the South for Cinnamon, coffee and coco plantation and as domestic servants for the Dutch, some of them (NOT considerable amount) were also settled in the North for tobacco plantation.
This is what Dr. Sinnappah Arasaratnam said.
Encouraged by the ambiguities in Dutch law, which interpreted adimai or bonded status of landless laborers as slave labor, vellalar landowners claimed ownership of these landless laborers, similar to western slavery. There was also in existence some enslavement by purchase, as a result of the periodic occurrence of dreadful famines in southern India. During these periods, starving families came to the ports and offered themselves for sale into slavery. The Dutch transported thousands of people in this manner and settled them in the PENINSULA. Private individuals from Jaffna also bought slaves in this market for their own personal services. (Arasaratnam, Sinnappah; The Sri Lankan Tamils - Ethnicity & Identity, 1994, Emphasis added)
During the 17th and 18th centuries, the preservation of law and order by peaceful civilian government contributed to a gradual expansion of population, occasionally augmented by migration from the politically unsettled districts of south India. Consequently, the populations of the densely populated provinces of Valikamam and Vadamarachchi increased. Older villages, with their intensively cultivated and subdivided land, recorded populations of as much as 5000 each. The population pressure seems to have forced people to move into new villages in the less densely populated Thenmarachchi and Pachilapalai and on marginal lands where the level of subsistence was very low. The off-shore islands of Kayts, Nedunthivu and Punkuduthivu were also settled. (Arasaratnam, Sinnappah; The Sri Lankan Tamils - Ethnicity & Identity, 1994)
Muchalinda have no other comments.
The Tamil race (people) were living in Sri Lanka and worshipping those five Ishwarams of Siva long before Prince Vijay was born.
Can you please give any evidence to show when these are built. I am not demanding a video footage, but some solid evidence apart from what Paul E. Peris said. If you are going to reiterate that, please at least give a tiny hint upon which evidence he might have baed his opinion.
The recorded history of the island begins with Devanampiyatissa (252-212 BC), (Theva Nambiya Thesan, a name which has a real meaning in Tamil).
Hah..ha..that's a good one. BTW, someone else in this forum once said that US President Lincoln too is an Eela Tamil. His original name was Lingam!!
Lula, my original plan was to reply to every point you raised in your last post. However, seeing this made me to abandon my original plan. So I will stop for the time being. Forget Thesawalamai...if you want to continue, let us get Theva Nambiya Thesan fixed first.
-Muchalinda
. Edited By - Mucha-linda - 27 Oct 2006 05:10:19 GM |
Shakti Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 2691 Member Profile
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27 Oct 2006 05:07:12 GMT Report for Abuse
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Lula,
I told you!
. Edited By - Shakti - 27 Oct 2006 05:15:20 GMT |
LuLa Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005 Posts: 2316 Member Profile
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27 Oct 2006 05:52:21 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha,
Of course, those who lived there had an identity. But it was more or less the identity of South Indian Tamils, but nothing else.
Identity of South Indian Tamils??? What a joke!
Unfortunately, you do not understand those literary works and poems written by those famous ancient Tamils of Jaffna. The term Eela Tamils was taken from those.
(Eela means Sri Lanka).
In simple terms, the Coromandel and Malabar identities became prominent in Jaffnapatnam at the time, and Europeans generalized the way they identified the inhabitants accordingly.
NONSENSE!
The Europeans did not generalize them, they called all of them as Malabars, some of them thought they may have come, TIMES PAST, form Coramandal. They NEVER grouped the people in Jaffna as Malabars and Coromendal.
The simple, harsh, bitter, undeniable and sad truth is that an identity of a nation/ ethnicity cannot be deprived or overlooked, as long as they are accounted to a considerable majority, if the identity is their own. What went wrong with those inhabitants of Jaffnapatnam at the arrival of Europeans was they neither had their own identity nor accounted to a considerable majority.
Again you are repeating the same NONSENSE. The 22 kings of Jaffna did not rule a very few people. Regarding identity, they were known as Tamils and Tamil Kingdom, not Indian Tamils or Malabars.
Why on earth they called these same native longstanding Tamils of Jaffnapatnam as Coromandels simultaneously.
Officially they called them Malabars right from when they arrived, later they thought they were from Coramandal because the Language, religion and culture were very similar.
They would have also called the Sinhalese as Malabars and Coromandal if not for Buddhism, the North Indian language and the Buddhist culture.
the problem I have is who are these *THESE NATIVE TAMILS* if what you meant by *those Tamils* are Cholas and Pandyas.
The native Tamils were those Tamils who were living in the Island from the time of Sena and Guttika. Every renowned Sri Lankan historians today have accepted the fact that the Tamils (Buddhists) were also living in Sri Lanka as natives (NOT as Indian Tamils) from the time of Sena and Guttika.
let me also remind you that if that is the case, then you are also indirectly admitting that Batticaloa Tamils are not Eela Tamils, given the differences of the Tamil they speak.
There is hardly any difference between the Tamil spoken in Batticaloa and all other parts of Tamil Eelam.
I cannot understand why you are repeating what Dr. Sinnappah Arasaratnam said over and over, we have already discussed it in detail many times.
Can you please give any evidence to show when these are built.
I'll come back to you on this point.
let us get Theva Nambiya Thesan fixed first.
I did not say he is a Tamil (may be or may be not), what I said was, his name has a real meaning in Tamil.
So, you can continue with your original plan.
Let me elaborate a little further on this Malabar issue.
According to historians, the Chera (Malabars) and the Pandya (Tamil) kings were powerful in the Tamil country in South India from pre-Christian times to about the 3rd century AD.
The renowned Sri Lankan social anthropologist, Prof. Gananath Obeysekere who has done an extensive research on the Sri Lanka-Kerala link says,
at least a part of what is thought to have come from Tamil Nadu, may have come from Kerala, because in ancient times, the Tamil country comprised what is now Tamil Nadu and Kerala.
At the same time, he clearly says that, the Europeans calling the Northern Sri Lankan Tamils 'Malabars' was due to a case of MISTAKEN IDENTITY.
The Sinhalese NEVER called the Sri Lankan Tamils as Malabars, the South Indian Tamils NEVER called the Sri Lankan Tamils as Malabars, the South Indian Malabars NEVER called the Sri Lankan Tamils as Malabars, and the Sri Lankan Tamils NEVER called themselves as Malabars.
The book 'THE LAND OF THE TAMULIANS' written in 1875 by a German missionary Rev. E. R. Baierlein says in his book (page 105):
I have not been able to omit the primitive Church of Southern India, although its present place of residence is beyond the present boundraies of the land of the Tamulians. For the seperation of Malabar from the Tamil country, is of recent date; even our first missionaries call Tamil land Malabar and the language - even not very much diffrerent - Malabarish.
In the year 1498, VASCO DE GAMA's landing in Malabar marked the beginning of the era of foreign Intervention in that region. The Dutch preceded the Portuguese, and then the British East INDIA Company had been on the MALABAR coast since 1684.
It was from Malabar that the Portuguese came to Sri Lanka. They found two different ethnic groups living in Sri Lanka in two different areas, the one living closer to the Malabar coast had a similar language, religion and culture. Without any hesitation, they called them Malabars even though there was a Tamil Kingdom when they arrived.
The Dutch who preceded them continued to call them Malabars and the British also called them Malabars but later when the British realized the mistake, that they were Tamils and not Malabars, they corrected it.
However much you try to fabricate new his-stories, you may be able to sell them to some of those racist web sites such as Lanka web, but only Knoda Bandapu Cheenu will believe them. Edited By - LuLa - 29 Oct 2006 14:36:18 GMT |
Mucha-linda Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 2619 Member Profile
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27 Oct 2006 06:27:00 GMT Report for Abuse
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GAMAYA,
That whole concept about STEP FATHERLAND is great.
-Muchalinda
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