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Mucha-linda
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6 Oct 2005 03:57:27 GMT Report for Abuse
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ARIYALAI_SB:
What you are seemingly doing is criticizing us for certain things which we have never mentioned. Please understand, you cannot become an Intellect by doing this sort of Thamilchelvan type Gimmicks.
Get this crystal clear. We have never mentioned that Sinhala is a pure language and has been minimally influenced by Tamil.
At the time of Vijayan Arrival, according Mahavansa, there were native people living on the island whom Mahavansa identifies as Yakshas, Nagas, Rakshas and Devas. The language spoke by them is not very clear and there are certain linguistic evidences to prove that it is not an off-shoot of the Dravidan class of Languages, but having more similarities to Divehi (i.e. the Maldivian Language). For example, there are certain words in Sinhala whose origins cannot be traced back to any language in the area, and therefore Linguists believe them as the remains of the Native Toungue spoken by those Yakshas and Nagas. Some of those words are Bada (Stomach) , Linda (Well), Gindara (Fire) etc. Another great evidence is the presence of the vowel sound 'ae? (as the sound produced by the letter 'a? in the word Cat). This sound (and the letter) can be hardly found in any other Indian Language. As a result, it is very difficult to find any names or words rhyming like Ethulathmudali, Epasinghe, Ketagoda, Embuldeniya, Kelaniya, Ella-Wellawaya etc in Tamil or in any other sub-continent language. This native language is currently identified as Elu or Hela Language (Word Siwu Hela or the Four groups of Helas is a clear evidence in this regards).
The language King Vijaya spoke at his arrival is clearly not Sinhala, but a North Indian language spoken in the area called Lata Rata. The language Sinhala was primarily became into existence by the integration of these Vijayan Migrants with the Hela or the Native People. That is how it started and this is the very reason for the absence of any language similar to Sinhala in the mainland India. However, down in the process, language Sinhala has been subjected to many influences from other languages and one of that, of course is Tamil. One does not need to be a rocket scientist to prove this since there are clear evidence in this regards in Mahavansa.
This is how it happened. So, understand that if there are any Sinhala Words with Tamil origins, they came to Sinhala not from those Native people, but from the migrants and invaders came to the island later. The best evidence that can be produced in support of this is the great lack of Tamil like words in the inscriptions dated beyond 10th Century AD.
(cont. on next post)
-Muchalinda, The Chauvinist BIGOT.
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Edited By - Mucha-linda - 6 Oct 2005 04:09:34 GMT |
Mucha-linda
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6 Oct 2005 04:00:36 GMT Report for Abuse
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ARIYALAI_SB Again:
Also understand, the presence of Tamil like words in Sinhala do not essentially mean that those are being used since the 6th Century BC. Some of the words in fact came into Sinhala as late as the last 300 years and there is nothing to surprise if one can analyze the amount of Sinhala words with ENGLISH, DUTCH and PORTUGUESE origins. Of course those Europeans were not here in the 6th Century BC for us to use words like Basaya (Bus) in 2005.
That is how the spoken language of Sinhala Started. In case of the scripts (or the letters), almost all the alphabets in the sub-continent have been descended from a mother alphabet called Brahmi. Brahmi is said to be an off-shoot of Arameic or Phoenician. Sinhala as well as Tamil letters have descended form these Brahmi scripts, but in case of Sinhala, it got developed in a unique way due to the close confinement of the language in a see-bound island and due to the early efforts of Buddhist Monks to write Buddhist texts on palm leaves.
So, ARIYALAI_SB, if you want, please comment on the above facts and not to the facts you think we have said.
Good Luck.
-Muchalinda, The Chauvinist BIGOT.
PS: Having said all these, I am still interested know your response to the similarity between Sinhala, Telugu and Malayalam.
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Edited By - Mucha-linda - 6 Oct 2005 04:01:26 GMT |
magha
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6 Oct 2005 05:17:31 GMT Report for Abuse
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Norway - Constitution
Adopted on: 17 May 1814 (Document Status: 29 Feb 1996)
Official Title: The Constitution of the Kingdom of Norway
Article 2 Religion, State Religion
(1) All inhabitants of the Realm shall have the right to free exercise of their religion.
(2) The Evangelical-Lutheran religion shall remain the official religion of the State. The inhabitants professing it are bound to bring up their children in the same.
Article 4 Religion of the King
The King shall at all times profess the Evangelical-Lutheran religion, and uphold and protect the same.
Article 12 Council of State
(2) More than half the number of the Members of the Council of State shall profess the official religion of the State.
Article 16 Public Worship
The King ordains all public church services and public worship, all meetings and assemblies dealing with religious matters, and ensures that public teachers of religion follow the norms prescribed for them.
Article 27 Quorum and Attendance of the Council of State
(2) A Member of the Council of State who does not profess the official religion of the State shall not take part in proceedings on matters which concern the State Church.
Article 100 Press, Expression
There shall be liberty of the Press. No person may be punished for any writing, whatever its contents, which he has caused to be printed or published, unless he wilfully and manifestly has either himself shown or incited others to disobedience to the laws, contempt of religion, morality or the constitutional powers, or resistance to their orders, or has made false and defamatory accusations against anyone. Everyone shall be free to speak his mind frankly on the administration of the State and on any other subject whatsoever.
Note: Further information on the constitutional background of Norway is provided by the International Constitutional Law |
magha
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6 Oct 2005 05:30:57 GMT Report for Abuse
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If one becomes a permanent resident of Norway one has the freedom to practice his or her religion what ever it is, how ever if they are Lutheran Christians they have to bring up their children in the same faith. That is how I understand it.
So what are the tunes that Lutheran Christians in Norway playing that the minorities of other faiths had to dance to? |
GamaRaala
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6 Oct 2005 05:38:49 GMT Report for Abuse
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Magha,
* If you see no problem with the Norwegian constitution, what problems do you have with SL constitution in regard to 'Buddhism enjoying the foremost place'?
* Do you see any problem with Norwegian Constitution enforcing:
'More than half the number of the Members of the Council of State shall profess the official religion of the State.'
Do you see any discrimination against non-Lutheran religions here? :-)
* If the SL constitution had 'more than half the number of MPs (or members of Cabinet) should be Buddhists', pseudo-intellectuals will yell on top of their lungs against it, and claim such clauses are not 'democratic'.
Edited By - GamaRaala - 6 Oct 2005 05:41:29 GMT |
Mucha-linda
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6 Oct 2005 06:07:08 GMT Report for Abuse
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MAGHA:
I gave you the opportunity to leave this discussion without being subjected to further humiliation. Unfortunately, you have not grasped what I warned quite well. I cannot help you any further. Seemingly, you are not quite happy being naked, but are wanting to become a stripper.
Okay, here starts the second round.
MAGHA:
Can you tell me clearly whether you like to adopt the clauses in the Norwegian Constitution into the Sri Lankan Constitution. Are you happy to see the Articles 9, 10 and 14-1-e of the Sinhala Buddhist Chauvinistic Sri Lankan Constitution to be replaced by Articles 2 and 4 of the More Modern and Liberal Norwegian Constitution.
Please answer this, and remember, you are not allowed to play the games you played with your little sister (i.e. Running around the Bush) in this forum.
-Muchalinda BH, The Chauvinist Joker.
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Edited By - Mucha-linda - 6 Oct 2005 06:10:34 GMT |
GamaRaala
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6 Oct 2005 07:09:32 GMT Report for Abuse
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Lula,
What you do is not a 'small correction', but a 'major refuting' of Ariyalai_SB's argument.
What Ariyalai_SB said was,
-- 'who speak Malayalam and Thelungu, can read most of the Sinhala writing'
--'Sinhala scripts resemble those of Malayalam and Tamil.'
He specifically refered to 'malayali script' and says both scripts are similar to the extent that Malayalis can read Sinhalese script, which is absolute rubbish.
* What Ariyalai_SB attempted to say was 'Sinhalese language is a derivation of Dravidian languages' -- to which linguists disagree.
* Sinhalese may have similarities with Keralities in certain words, cultural traits, food etc.
* In the same manner, Sinhalese have similarities with the Portugese, the Dutch and the English.
* If you return from a visit to Englad, you would be equally 'surprised' to see Sinhalese even those in the villages wear shirts, trousers, eat cakes & sandwiches.(There any many more european food, clothes, cultural habits remaining among Sinhalese, thanks to European invasions).
* Were you surprised to see Keralities eating 'traditional Sinhalese food' like Kokis? :-)) Friend, Kokis was introduced to SL by the Dutch. This itself shows that some aspects you see common to Keralites and Sinhalese are actually introduced by the European invasions much much later.
Anyway, there is nothing to be surprised here; over the years Sinhalese have acquired cultural traits etc from invaders like Europeans and South Indians.
* As Mucha pointed out, Sinhalese language acquired words from English like 'Basaya, car eka' etc.
* While Sinhalese language was enriched by foreign languages like Pali, Sanskirt, English, Tamil etc, the language 'SL Tamils' speak is the same language --not just something derived-- Tamil Nadu Tamils speak and write. (Except for dialetical differences, like British, American, Australian English)
* This proves to any rational mind that SL Tamils are migrants from Tamil Nadu.
Edited By - GamaRaala - 6 Oct 2005 12:25:42 GMT |
GamaRaala
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6 Oct 2005 07:30:19 GMT Report for Abuse
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| Lula, please check my posts in this thread to Ariyalai_SB and you'll realise what I say. |
tigeress19
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6 Oct 2005 08:42:07 GMT Report for Abuse
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Muchalinda
i have asked you two questions one still pending to be answered.can you please read my post again and answer the second question,
now i understood the constitutional difference between the named countries.
daughter of eelam. |
GamaRaala
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6 Oct 2005 13:46:33 GMT Report for Abuse
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Lula,
You don't have to accept what I say; if you logically reason, you would arrive at what I say.
The villagers of SL wear shirts and trousers NOT BECAUSE there are internationalised. It was a trait the British left in SL.
You said: 'whereas pol sambola and redtha/hatta are unique to Sinhalese and Keralites.'
Lula, similarity of 'reddha/hatte' of present Sinhalese and Keralite women doesn't prove any historical relationsip. Present 'Reddha/Hatte' is not an ancient Sri Lankan dress. Check diagrams to see how ancient Sri Lankan women are depicted.
You say: 'you said that the Sinhalese acquired cultural traits from south Indian invaders, so why only the food and clothes from Kerala, why not (thosay, iddly, vaday) from Tamil Nadu?'
Lula, in the same manner, one can argue, 'why Sinhalese only aquired Kokis (and few other) from the Dutch? Why not other Dutch food? Why not dutch clothes? Why only few dutch words?', 'Why Portuguese Baila music formed a distinct popular SL music genre, but not Dutch or English or Tamil (or Keralite) music?' etc.
The answer is, 'Sinhalese have aquired many things from many cultures; not everything from one culture.'
About being look-alikes, I've heard the weather in Kerala is much similar to that in SL. This could perhaps be one of the reasons. Anyhow, 'looking alike' is not a scientific concept to decide history of a race or nation.
Even Sinhalese are not look-alikes; for instance, skin complexion, eye color, facial shapes vary very much even among Sinhalese.
Further, some say Bengalis and Sinhalese look similar. If we were to decide Sinhalese and Bengalis have same ancesstral roots; with your observation we should also rule that Keralites and Bengalis (and Sinhalese) also share same ancesstral roots. These type of arguments are not very sound, unless they are backed up by other historical and archelogical evidences.
For instance, certain observations suggest that Sinhalese culture might have more similarities with German culture than the British eventhough the British were our collonial masters and the Germans never had a collonial presence in SL. Nalin de Silva pointed out that German dramas become more popular in SL than British dramas and suggested the possibility of German stories being closer to hearts and minds of Sinhalese than those of the British. Germans have developed a special liking to Sri Lanka; for a long time SL received its biggest share of tourists from Germany. Mahawanshaya was translated to English by German Wilhelm Geiger who also was a master of Sinhalese language. (His son was the famous scientist who invented the Geiger counter) German Marie Musaeus turned to Buddhism, arrived in SL and worked for the welfare of Sinhalese Buddhists.
If you have time, check this speech by late Kadirgamar. His speeches are very much informative.
http://www.srilanka-botschaft.de/NEWSupdates/Updates_2004/Updates_May2004/forminweizE.htm
However, one cannot argue based on these observations that Sinhalese race has a close ancesstral ties with Germans. the same applies to Keralites.
Edited By - GamaRaala - 6 Oct 2005 16:49:30 GMT |
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