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EU considering taking action against LTTE
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Maninder
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10 Sep 2005 18:09:51 GMT Report for Abuse
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Tigeress,
I have answered all of your questions. However, it is obvious that you didn't really get my points, but I know it is my mistake. It is my bad communication skills.
However, I just want to ensure you that I am not a sinhalese budhist monk who is on a 'mission - impossible' to brain wash you into a die hard JHU follower. My ethnicity and professional background as I told you stands true.
During our discussion, I also got a good insight into the mind of a young LTTE follower. It was a pleasure talking to you.
Edited By - Maninder - 10 Sep 2005 18:13:00 GMT |
KURAL
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10 Sep 2005 21:06:46 GMT Report for Abuse
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My dear Tigeress,
:)) Like you, i like him.
Mahinder,
How is the new relationship between USA and India ?
Is Usa trying to make India his 'best friend' in Asia ?
Why ?
First reason, it's the economical attraction for IT and other high-technologies based companies.. it's a great buissness for Western companies (IBM, HP, Micra$ofte, ... ) ! (Indians are under paid comparing the other scientists)
Second reason, India is the unique country in Asia able to fight China , when time will come...
Third reason, Amercians have to use american&british-indians as their dogs , like that they will become their coolies to control entire India.
Fourth reason, it's the unique way to recolonize what they lost with British Empire... Why it's said that World's richest persons are Britishes and Americans (without talking about Arabs who made fortunates with Oil.) ?
British were colonialists by Excellence...
Amercians are neo-colonialists by Excellence...
Do not underestimate that my dear friend. |
KURAL
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10 Sep 2005 21:18:18 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mahinder,
The destruction of the Bamiyan Buddha and other priceless Buddhist statues, carvings, icons etc., throughout Afghanistan is probably over by now. The chief of the ruling Taliban, Mulla Mohammad Omar, is unmoved by the appeal of several countries including Pakistan and Egypt and the Organisation of Islamic Countries. The unrepentant Mulla, on the other hand, asked the Muslims world over to support his destruction order and 'unite behind his vision of Islam'. He also exhorted the Muslims of the world not to support the non-believers since 'the infidels wanted to rob Islam of its spirit'.
During his campaign of destruction and loot, at the turn of the second millennium, Mahmud Ghazni wrought much destruction and desecration of idols and icons. He vandalised many famous Hindu temples in North India, including the famous Somnath temple in 1025 AD. But he did not desecrate the Bamiyan Buddha which was about seven centuries old by then and towered over the Bamiyan valley which was not very far from Ghazni.
Sir you cannot compare LTTE and Taliban, one more time. LTTE do not search such things, if you trust that you are underestimating what is really LTTE . |
saleemtariq
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 202
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10 Sep 2005 22:15:25 GMT Report for Abuse
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Maninder,
I try to deal with your arguments you have given to among others, Tigeress19, Kural and myself.
India is our motherly and friendly neighbour who have done many good things to the Tamils and to the country at large. Giving military training to MANY liberation groups , IPKF?s excesses against civilians and negotiating any defense agreement with the govt. that?s dominated by the majority and that suppressed the minorities are not among them. Forgiveness of the past misdeeds of both govt.(expelling upcountry workers, Kachaitivu etc) and LTTE by Sonia Gandhi and the Govt. are in the tradition of Mahathma Gandhi.
1. Taliban and LTTE are entirely different type of movements. Taliban are anti-Christian, anti-Buddhist (they destroyed a Buddha stature which is a treasure) and ant-Christian and anti-foreigners. They suppressed women. LTTE put all the religions at equal footing (refer ISGA). There are Christians and Hindus among LTTE. Lord Buddha and Mohammed are held at very high esteem. Women are treated equal to men in every respect. Northern Muslims (NMRO) and LTTE are in hand in hand in solving common problems in Jaffna.
2. LTTE has initiated many social projects to the extents even the govt. is envy of, privately.
3. LTTE, as any other liberation groups, are extremely wary about the govt., other Tamil groups and individuals who work to undermine their existence. Even stable governments punish traitors with death. Otherwise you can criticize and change things without challenging their existence. As many army soldiers contravene their rules and regulations and commit crimes and excesses LTTE cadres also go outside their guidelines. They are reprimanded in private as Karuna type cadres or leaders do not like being shamed in public. But everything committed by any LTTE cadre is used against the leader.
4. We must accept the ground reality and work positively to bring LTTE into democratic framework. All what has been tried hitherto including the efforts by the President in 1994/95, Ranil?s CFA and subsequent Peace Talks are aimed at undermining or marginalizing LTTE. That?s why they were all end up in failures. We must be honest in our approach and then they will come round to accept the inevitability that the way forward is democratic route with equal changes to all the groups or individuals to contest elections. Historically negotiations are always held between the Govt. and the dominant liberation group. LTTE won?t accept any other time wasting talk-shops or shows.
5. Even in the educationally and technologically advanced western world education about democracy and the importance of electorates? involvement in elections are done in the most modern marketing methods that you suggest but they do not work, except Australian?s penalty for non-voting.
I found your arguments not only academic and non-practical but also exclusive to the experiences in other parts of the world. |
Maninder
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11 Sep 2005 05:16:30 GMT Report for Abuse
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Saleem,
1. Quote: Taliban and LTTE are entirely different type of movements:
I agree to the extent that LTTE respects the women under its control and religeous orientation of both movements are different. LTTE is arguably hindu in nature and the relative tolerance of hinduism towards freedom to worship is reflected in LTTE's approach.
However when it comes to deal with the larger political issues like freedom of expression and freedom to dissent, internal democracy and human dignity, both movements have same modus operandi. They are driven by strong individual convictions and wouldn't tolerate any opposite point of view a bit.
2. Quote: LTTE has initiated many social project to the private envy of goverment.
LTTE is still incapable of securing a peaceful and prosperous life for tamils in Sri Lanka. In fact it is now being viewed as the sole reason why the world shouldn't get involved to solve the plight of tamils there. All this social projects that they have undertaken is not good enough to compensate what tamils are loosing today.
3. Quote:LTTE is wary about Govt:
When ANC (african national congress) took on a stronger goverment in South Africa, they didn't resort into killing civilian political opponents, even though they had a militant wing. In fact ANC had a democratic leadership, collective decision making and a constitution which declared the commitment to pluralistic democracy, human rights and human dignity. This is why ANC had a lot of whites in its ranks and that is why south africa had smooth transformation.
It is also important to note that, after ANC took over the power, they addressed the past crimes against humanity through Truth reconciliation commission where crimes against humanity were confessed publicly in return for pardon.
Caompare this with LTTE is being wary of goverment and starts killing political opponents calling them traitors.
4. The reason why LTTE was born and LTTE's present realities are conflicting. While I want to be optimistic, I know that there will be no permanent peace with LTTE remaining unchanged.
5. It is a very obvious fact that functioning liberal democracies are economically and socially far ahead of their other ideological counter parts. And the contribution of NGOs in these societies are very very significant. Idon'think need to debate on that.
6. My views being academic and non-practical. Well, what do I know about about Sri Lanka, its army, LTTE, its political terror dynamics..No comments!
Edited By - Maninder - 11 Sep 2005 10:33:09 GMT |
KURAL
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11 Sep 2005 14:06:03 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mahinder,
Quote:
[[[LTTE is still incapable of securing a peaceful and prosperous life for tamils in Sri Lanka. ]]]
Sure, Sri lankan govt. , SL police, and SLA are still oppressing and killing LTTE,
it's why LTTE must first protect themselves... |
saleemtariq
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11 Sep 2005 15:05:20 GMT Report for Abuse
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Maninder,
1 & 3., LTTE wouldn?t tolerate any opposite point of view?
Anton Bala and Vanni leadership have different point of view as articulated by many of their opponents. After many misdeeds in LTTE?s infancy the Leadership listens and discuss with expatriates and academics who differ not only in the approach but also in policy. I stress again that any attempt to undermine them is deadly.
ANC had a mature leadership and faced a minority backed government. Tamils in SL are a tiny minority and more vulnerable to extinction if those supposed to lead them are seen to take a more relaxed attitude towards their safety or survival.
2. LTTE is incapable? and world?s involvement?:
LTTE is fighting to regain our rights for 21 years and previously our democratic leadership fought for longer, 27 years without any tangible results. You must admit at least after the armed conflict Indo-Lanka Accord lead to the merger of North and East, discontinuation of colonization of Northeast and passing of Tamil Official Language legislation. The govts. have not implemented those legislations shows the difficulty of dealing with a oppressive and stubborn southern leadership.
The world is trying by imposing conditions for it?s generous financial help for the rehabilitation and reconstruction, but again, southern extremists and not LTTE block these developments. During our period of peaceful protests by our political leadership oppression was a local affair but it is internationised now.
3. Ground realities: LTTE is a formidable force to be reckoned with. You or the Govt cannot defeat them. They have the proxy party TNA with highest number of elected MPs as such rightly claim the right to negotiate on behalf of the minority. The arched enemy army and police will not allow them electioneering and no one can expect them to commit suicide. What we can do is to convince LTTE that violence is counter productive and taking revenge on deep penetration units and Karuna will continue to undermine our cause and gradually destroy their fighting capability. The govt. must show they are committed to find a solution. It can even by pass LTTE by putting a genuine devolution package on the table. We must also convince the southern extremists that they must be reasonable and not hinder the efforts of majority elected govts. offering minorities a reasonable solution. ALL must convince LTTE that their willingness to democratize themselves will be supplemented with acceptance of them as a part of political framework and no underworld conspiracy will be hatched to destroy them. You know even the mighty USSR crumbled under peoples power. |
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