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Norway blocking Government efforts to corner LTTE
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Mucha-linda
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6 Sep 2005 00:57:06 GMT Report for Abuse
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SHAN Again x 5:
13) Quote: Kandy king is answerable to QUEEN OK. There was no such independent Kandy king after Rajasingan. Kangarathanam was WORKING FOR KANDY KING IN 1921. How frequent these Kandy kings did the so called census before? What was the Sinhala population in 1948 in the eastern province? What is now? (Emphasis, mine).
I DO NOT WANT TO COMMENT ON ANY OF THE ABOVE YOU WROTE. BUT THANKS FOR WRITING THEM ANYWAY.
However, I still cannot understand how people like KADUVAN can write things like LOTS OF TAMILS NEED TAMILS LIKE YOU, after reading things like this.
SHAN, you need to read a lot on History.
14) About the Post Scripts (PS) I wrote:
SHAN, Those are English translation of two Sinhala proverbs. You have not understood the real meanings of those. FAIRPLAY will probably able to help you there.
GOOD LUCK.
-Muchalinda
PS: FYI: These 6 posts quote 340 words of your previous posts which is approximately 14%.
PS2: Some facts mentioned in these posts were extracted from various sources, further information can be provided if requested.
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shan
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6 Sep 2005 06:47:05 GMT Report for Abuse
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Hello Mucha
Thank you. I am not an English teacher or a lawyer. I hope anyhow you and others understood my post. I will come back to you ASAP.
Bye |
tigeress19
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6 Sep 2005 08:23:07 GMT Report for Abuse
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Dear shan
what is the point some one posting the same post all over again?(THE ADMIN DID NOT MIND EITHER)
it is very confusing and trying to mislead as usual,that some one must be retired person has nothing to do and has plenty of time in hand.
as we all know it is time consuming task.shan,perhaps you too should start all over again from the beginning,(re post all the post you posted in order)it might clear the other readers too.
i do have some points which he does not want to clarify with you because he feels it will suite him better if he does not clarify.
any way this whole episode is not moving anywhere (hoped it will).how low can he get !!!!!!!. |
shan
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6 Sep 2005 18:22:17 GMT Report for Abuse
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Hello Mucha 1
This time your post is just an English essay to me and corrected by your father. This is what I was telling you (we) Tamils need a neutral man to mediate.
Anyhow you got the message clearly and let the people decide what I am taking and what you are talking.
This time we will have mixture of science and our analytical power and of course history your favourite.
If you have problem reading previous post read quote and unquote as Mucha quote and Shan quote but the answers were appropriate. I used it to avoid the confusion. OK.
I will follow the same technique again Mucha Quote/ wrote as MQ my answers will be SQ . Is that clear?
If anything to do with my English talent, I will leave to Fairplay or Kural or Tigress19 or Saintclair. You can have proper English discussion with them.
I am here to discuss the sufferings of my bro and sisters of your belief and twisted stories.
You have not answered important issues.
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MQ
SHAN:
Responding back to someone elses arguments (facts) is not a mere Quote and Unquote exercise followed by some comments you think is appropriate. It should be an exercise of producing more evidences to disprove (if not accepting) what the other said, so that readers can come to a conclusion by themselves beyond reasonable doubts.
Unfortunately, what you have done is the first, not the second. I do not know whether you had enough time to go through what you wrote (Quote) before publishing it here. But on one occasion I saw you quoting even things like GOOD LUCK, -Muchalinda etc, from my previous post:-))).
FYI: 40% of the your last post directed to me was quoted from my previous post (i.e. 1363 words out of 3388 words total). I caanot understand why did you do that.
However, the real joke is people like Kaduvan, Kural and Tigress19 praising your reply which in fact is 40% Quoted. Seemingly, you guys (and Girls) are in a mutual understanding on scratching others itchy backs, though it is not going to work here. I would like to invite them to read your post first, before reading mine.
SQ
I have explained it in my introduction. People can understand what I wrote and you can go back and forth to see and others as well.
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shan
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6 Sep 2005 18:23:55 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha Cont2
MQ
You cont as
PLEASE READ TILL THE END.
1) About SL as Sinhala Buddhist Country throughout the History:
I am pretty sure you did not understand what I said. But, if you read what I wrote with more patience, you will see the point I raised. Just to re-establish, proving Tamil presence in SL in the past does not going to make SL a non Sinhala Buddhist Country. To clarify it further, Tamil presence in SL and having well established Tamil settlements or having Independent Tamil Kingdoms are two different things. For example, France is a French Catholic Country. This does not mean that all the people used to live in France were French Catholics. In fact, during the WWII, the whole of France was invaded and controlled by Germans. Even an incident of such magnitude would NOT make France a non French Catholic Country.
SQ
1.You are running out of points aren?t you? I gave evidence from your side it self and dating back to BC. And now you want restrict your self to 1900 AD. What happened to you?. Go back and read. OK
2. Now bit of general intelligence
You know India and south India and how close SL to south India. All southern states are Dravidian and naturally ??
If you are an honest person give me the answer.
Science
There is scientific evidence SL had land connection to Tamil nadu.
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MQ
You cont as
I had to say this in my previous post because you wrote (Quoted) that there was a fairly good racial harmony between Tamils and Sinhalas during the early centuries.
SQ
No more time wasting I gave the analysis by the historians and the source. Do not twist things here. I clearly told Tamils to this country is very old. Rulers changed but people at large remained same.
This is what I wrote you in the past.
I told you even if Prabaharan signs something it doesn?t mean anything. Tamil are Tamils. 21st century man. I have the ways and means to look after me. Clear.
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MQ
Cont of your
Yes, there would have been Tamils in Sri Lanka in those times and might have had a racial harmony because Tamils never tried to challenge the Sinhala Kings. Whenever they did that they were fought back by the Sinhala Kings as long as the Sinhalas were powerful enough to do that.
Mucha cont 3
SQ
I have proved you. Kural can give you the List of Kings how many times your power was tested from BC it self. So you now agree Tamils were here.
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MQ
You cont as
This should NOT again mean to anyone that there were Sinhala and Tamil regimes in SL throughout the History as equal partners and they fought with each other when ever one gained enough power to chase the other away. For example during the 1600 years of Anuradhapura Kingdom, invaders only managed to seizure the power for NOT more than an aggregated period of 170 years and all of those invaders are essentially NOT Tamils. Remember it is 1400: 200 approximately. Sometimes Numbers can better explain things than words.
SQ
Chased away up to where? Any help from Prof? I asked this before as well? You give it numbers and names and places.
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MQ
You cont about my answer
2) Quote: your appointed last king in Jaffna was not a Sinhala Buddist. Tamil and Hindu. System was violated from 1200 in Jaffna You could not do anything. Your last Kandy king was a Tamil. He didn?t fight to the throne. System selected him.
I have nothing seriously against about the above you mentioned, because it is not going to disprove anything I said. More precisely, Arya Chakrawarthis ruled Peninsular Jaffna.
SQ
Go back and see my answer to your question. I gave you the solid answer.
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MQ
You cont as
Remember: Not a single square inch in the East) roughly for a period of 350 years and Portuguese took over the area thereafter (we discussed this very well in our previous discussion and if you want we can repeat them here again).
SQ
We haven?t discussed my dear. We haven?t OK.
I gave you touch of flavour of Koneshwaram temple and the people and and who destroyed it and your favourite Inscriptions related to that temple.
You said something about Batticallo Tamils.
READ THIS CAREFULLY ABOUT VEDDAS BY WEERASEKARA _ROOTs web
Veddas
According to historical confirmation the indigenous people of Sri Lanka had lived in the country before the Indian and Arabic colonisations. Anthropologists have categorised the Veddas of Sri Lanka in three distinct groups (Weerasekera).
The traditional ?Kiri Koraha? ritual.
Veddas who live in scattered hamlets in the South Eastern part of the country living and hunting in the forests of Ampara, Badulla, Batticaloa Districts. Their numbers have dwindled.
Veddas who live in the North Central Province and in the Anuradhapura area. They are engaged in chena cultivation and agriculture.
Veddas who live in the Eastern Coast, between Valachchenai and Trincomalee. These Veddas are known as 'Coastal veddas'. They differ vastly from the above two categories in two respects. The language of coastal veddas is Tamil: their livelihood is mainly chena cultivation and fishing.
2. Even your Prof Indirabala in his hypothesis Tamil settlements in the East dates back to 13 th century. Well before Portuguese arrived. OK. Read his hypothesis fully.
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MQ
You cont as
Also note, Sinhala Kings never considered these Rulers as Independent Kings or as Parallel Kingdoms, but treated them as mere local rulers who, on certain occasions behaved rebelliously (Refer to the examples I gave in my previous post). In fact, there were even few Sinhala areas controlled by ceratin Sinhala Rebellious chieftains ignoring the orders of the King. If you want I can give more evidence. Also, these Sinhala Kings never attempted to re-establish their complete control in Jaffna due to many reasons, one being them having their own headaches to get resolved at their immediate back yards. You may see the differences in the ways Sinhala Kings reacted to Portuguese Invaders and to Arya Chakrawarthis in this regards.
SQ
Did you read my postings carefully? Sinhala Kings never had an empire like British or at least like Chola. Despite the long history of animosity and knowing the fact Tamil kingdoms in India were shattered you are unable to touch Tamils. Mucha is your answer satisfy you? Give it your uncle and get A for it.
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MQ
As you said, since 1739 to 1815 several Nayakkar Kings ruled the Sinhala Buddhist Kandyan Kingdom. In the same way Jewish Benjamin Disraeli became the Prime Minister of UK for several years, and UK was never considered as a Jewish State.
SQ
1.I have given the evidence of ethnicity of the SL from your source it self dates back in BC.
2.How it was at the time of we lost our independence to Portuguese.
3. British brought the administration together. You expert give me the date. OR I will.
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Edited By - shan - 6 Sep 2005 18:45:10 GMT |
shan
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6 Sep 2005 18:25:04 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha 4
MQ
You cont as
3) About Chasing the Tamils away by Sinhala Kings:
You wrote: It was not me and you are the one told rest of the Tamils are chased away or amalgamated to Sinhala society. Are you saying no to that now?
Yes, I am NOT saying NO to that now because I never said that Sinhala Kings chased away ALL the Tamils in my previous posts. The Tamils who opted to live here further was amalgamated to the Sinhala Society since they accepted the rule of the Sinhala King.Now, this should never mean that all of them converted to Buddhism or adopted Sinhala Names etc. But they were simply convinced (or forced) to accept the rule of the Sinhala King.
If you think I have ever said things in contradiction to this, please provide them so that I can withdraw those.
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SQ
I did not keep the previous postings. But I can remember well. Ok we can leave it because it is not our topic.
MQ
4) Quote: I don?t say I evolved from SL monkey. Yes SL Tamils would be from India. Another possibility is there could have been a land connection to India before this shallow pak stright. These influxes have started happening from BC onwards south Indian or Arians. So the history is so old not only they came, they managed to capture and rule it in BC it self. Can you imagine group of ten people crossing the sea and started ruling the well-established population? Either they should have come in large number or there should be supporting population.
It is nice to see that you are at least accepting that SL Tamils are not the descendents of those Homo Erectuses found at numerous locations around the country. I say this because there are some Eelamists believing things like this. However, as I have repeatedly said, there are no archeological, historical or any other form of scientific evidence to prove that present day SL Tamils are descending from those possible south Indian migration that could have taken place in pre-Vijayan era. If you have any evidence, please provide them without repeating the same question.
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SQ
Mucho Mucha
1.I have given an example By Mr. Weerasekara, above.
2.By your Prof Indirabala In his evidence based thesis read fully about his thesis.
3. Is it not good enough about pracence of Ketheshwaram and Konesh waram temples. I will tell you who built it And Sinhala kings caputure these they put their signatures and went away.
LIKE IN 1983
SL army threw the Lord Ganesh statue of Thirukoneshwaram and put the INSCRIPTION as GANA DEIYO NANDA GIYA.
4. Your Mahavansa and our Manimehali are to different source. They describe same thing in and around the same period about inhaitants of SL. So use your brain. I cannot translate thngs here.
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MQ
You cont as
However, as I have previously said, all the prevailing evidences prove it otherwise, i.e The present day SL Tamils are descending from the influxes that took place after the Vijayan Migration (Please refer to the previous post for evidence).
Secondly, an invader need not to have a supporting community in the country for him to success. Vijaya, Portuguese, Sena and Guththika are examples. Think before you write.
SQ
Did you think before you write? Where were the battles? In the north central provine. Initially Tamils were ruled from India.
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MQ
You cont as
My Quote within ()
5) Quote: Read this and see when Tamils started to come to this country where it was documented and when was that documented from your side itself.
Quote: 1.Vijaya is the central legendary figure in the Mahavamsa. He was the grandson of an Indi?.. in the late eighteenth century
Mister, what is wrong with you. Did you forget what you are standing for. I have no problems about this text with respect to our discussion, though the source is not given. Yes, Vijayan epic does give just a glimpse to the early settlements. But, what all it proves is the fact that Pre-Vijayan demography is not clear, but nothing else. If you want to prove something else, you need to give evidence. This is the way History and Archeology works in the rest of the world.
Hello Mister MUCHA
This is the source
Informative general histories of Sri Lanka include K.M. de Silva's A History of Sri Lanka, E.F.C. Ludowyk's A Short History of Ceylon, Zeylanicus's Ceylon, S. Arasaratnam's Ceylon, and Chandra Richard de Silva's Sri Lanka: A History. Source books on medieval history are Wilhelm Geiger's translations of the Pali chronicles, the Mahavamsa and Culavamsa, and the comprehensive The Early History of Ceylon by G.C. Mendis. Highly informative for the study of modern political events and ethnic disturbances are S.J. Tambiah's Sri Lanka: Ethnic Fratricide, and the Dismantling of Democracy, A. Jeyaratnam Wilson's |
shan
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6 Sep 2005 18:26:44 GMT Report for Abuse
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Politics in Sri Lanka, and Government and Politics in South Asia by Craig Baxter, Yogendra K. Malik, Charles H. Kennedy, and Robert C. Oberst
I gave you before. How many time I have to give you.
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MQ
You cont as my quote ()
6) Quote: South Indian settlers were present according to several other historians. See the site I mentioned and other sites by your historians.
Brother, this is HILLARIOUS. Where did you mention the site? There is no URL given. Before talking about my inconsistencies, please pay some attention to read what you wrote before publishing them here.
SQ
I gave you the source and the evidence.
So Now time to read Mahavasa.
You don?t have a proper language to write Mahavansa in Sihala. It was written in Pali.
Don?t behave like small boy with your obsession and silliness.
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MQ
You cont as my Quote in()
7) Quote: Never been a MASS MASS migration to Jaffna my dear. How many thousands? Who were these Tamil Ariya Chac kings who were ruling in Nallur for generations? Before Portuguese arrived? Was it Sinhalease?
There in deed was a MASS MASS migration of South Indian Coromendal Tamils to Jaffna as documented by Dutch. At this stage, I would not be able to give you exact figures. But these have been accounted again by Prof. Karthigesu Indrapalan (probably the third most Hatred Tamil in the world followed by Laxman Kadiragamar and Vinayagamoorthi Muralitharan alias Colonel Karuna Amman).
SQ
He did write a Thesis for his PHD. Several others have disproved him and he left the country. Like weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. We will talk about that later.
Don?t go to prof we need from dutch source they will have account.
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MQ
You cont as
7.1) About the Arya Chakrawarthis: We spoke this previously. The first Arya Chakrawarthi king is Koolangai Singai Aryan. He was crowned by Chieftain Pandi Malavan after bringing him from Madurai. All the rest of the Kings are some how the other descended from this King Migrated from Madurai except King Kurunchi Nainar and King Chenpagap Perumal aka Sapumal Kumaraya.
Mucha 5
SQ
So what? I cant understand what you are trying to say here? Are they not Tamils and Did they rule Sinhalease in Jaffna.
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MQ
8) About Ishwaran Temples:
There is no point of repeatedly answering your questions because you know very well that you cannot defend yourself or prove what you said. Is there anything new in this. If you have those inscriptions you spoke about, please provide them. I am very keen to read them.
SQ
Did you read the post , I gave good Incriptions in My Pocket. Isnt it good enough?
And about Veddas by Mr Weerasekara.
There are others I will come back soon. OK.
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MQ
9) Quote: We dont speak like Indians speak. Did the Dutch asked us speak differently? On arrival to SL.
SL Tamil dialect is different to that of South Indians. But the fact is it has been phonetically proven to be 200 to 300 years apart from each other. Kannadi is a separate Language, and not considered as Dialect of South Indian Tamil. But the fact is Kannadi is said to have 600 years apart from South Indian Tamil. These are proven facts. So the differences between South Indian Tamil and SL Tamil is a result of a 200 to 300 years separation. If you speak that for at least 600 years SL Tamil is more likely to evolved as a completely separate language as that happened to Kannadi. So, if there are any differences, please aware that they resulted in a period of 200 years, not in 3000 years.
SQ
Mucha now I am getting the Tamil lesson form you.
How Pathetic am I?
Listen we know how we speak and how Indians speak. Don?t try to waste time here.
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MQ
You cont as my quote ()
10) Quote: You didn?t put up resistance to Portuguese! Or Dutch! Well done.
Yes, WELL DONE. Because this clearly indicates your History Knowledge. Before making this sort of nasty statements, please go and read Battles happened between Sinahala Forces and Portuguese at places like Danthure, Randeniwala, Gannoruwa, Mulleriyawa and Colombo Fort. To date, some of these Battles are considered as the most fearsome Battles Portuguese ever fought in their whole Imperial History.
FYI: |
shan
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6 Sep 2005 18:28:04 GMT Report for Abuse
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FYI: In one occasion, Sinahala Forces surrounded the whole Portuguese Fort in Colombo and hold it surrounded for the next 22 months cutting off all the supplies to the Fort. It was said that amidst the scarcity of food, even the Cat meat were paid well by the Portuguese during this 22 months seizure which ended up them driving away from the Island permanently. Forces loyal to the Sinhala King have said to have fought 14 major battles against Portuguese Invaders and have managed to kill two Viceroys.
SQ
Sorry I WAS EXPECTING BATTLES IN THE N&E.OK
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MQ
11) About Captain Percivals Intellect:
You questioned about the credibility and intelligence about the above mentioned British Captain. I never thought you would resume to tactics this low. I do not know from which University Capt. Percival graduated or what are the research papers he has lodged. But he is a Captain of the British Imperial Navy who has come across many different races and Jaffna could not be the only place he landed. According to the rest of his work, he has used the word Native to identify the majority people lived in the other parts of the island.
SQ
1.Very Very Good point. So you mean to say it is different from south Indian?
Read this
2. Two different nations, from a very ancient period, have divided between them the possession of the Island: the Sinhalese inhabiting the interior in its Southern and western parts from the river Wallouwe to Chilaw, and the Malabars (Tamils) who possess the Northern and Eastern Districts. These two nations differ entirely in their religion, language and manners.' - Sir Hugh Cleghorn, British Colonial Secretary, June 1879
'As to the qualification required in the knowledge of the native languages, the Portuguese and Sinhalese only being mentioned excludes one which is fully necessary in the Northern Districts as the Sinhalese in the South. I mean the Tamil language, commonly called the Malabar language, which with a mixture of Portuguese in use through all the provinces is the proper native tongue of the inhabitants from Puttalam to Batticaloa northward inclusive of both these districts.. Your Lordship will therefore, I hope have no objection to my putting Tamil on an equal footing of encouragement with the Sinhalese' - Sir Robert Brownrigg, Governor of Ceylon, 1813 Dispatch to the British Colonial Secretary of State, Reported in the Tribune, 12 January 1956)
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MQ
You cont as
12) About King Senarath providing refuge to the Muslims in the East.
According to the various Historical accounts Portuguese competed with Muslims for the spices trade on the Western Coast and later it became a direct confrontation. Muslims have never had any of their own
Cont MUCHA6
armies and had a fairly good trade relationship with the Sinhala King. So they came to the city of Kandy and pledge the Protection from the King, which the king in deed offered. He asked them to settle down in the Eastern areas and ordered them grow paddy abandoning the spices trade. Seemingly, the King was clever enough not to settle them down in areas close to the capital Kandy, which would have possibly ended up again in another confrontation between them and the Sinhala Traders. Eastern plains are the only area that was in the vicinity of the Kandian Kingdom having extensive irrigation systems for paddy cultivation.
SQ
I gave you the various historical evidence including your prof above OK
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MQ
King Senarath even allowed Muslims to beg food from Sinhala Villages until they cultivate their own harvest. In Robert Knox An Historical Relation of Island of Ceylon, it was said that in one occasion the Sinhala King punished one Sinhala Village who refused to provide food for the Muslims who started a new life.
If you ever think these are stories painted, please pass the credit to Robert Knox, not to myself.
SQ
Last kingdom to fall is Kandy. Europians had deal with the rulers. Kandy king were having deals with Dutch to get rid of Portuguese. And there was soldiers form Kandy king present in Trinco but the population was Tamil. Rebert Knox was arrested by Sinhala soldier and this is the reason he especially mentioned the race. You have told me about sinhalas moving out of batticallo, When did you move out from Trinco? What was your population in 1948 and Now?
Do you rule the country and move out quietly? So what is the fuss now erecting Buddha statue in the dark.
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MQ
13) Quote: Kandy king is answerable to QUEEN OK. There was no such independent Kandy king after Rajasingan. Kangarathanam was WORKING FOR KANDY KING IN 1921. How frequent these Kandy kings did the so called census before?
What was the Sinhala population in 1948 in the eastern province? What is now? (Emphasis, mine).
I DO NOT WANT TO COMMENT ON ANY OF THE ABOVE YOU WROTE. BUT THANKS FOR WRITING THEM ANYWAY.
SQ
Ethnicity is the problem. Can you disprove criminals are not colonised post Independence?
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MQ
You cont as
However, I still cannot understand how people like KADUVAN can write things like LOTS OF TAMILS NEED TAMILS LIKE YOU, after reading things like this.
SHAN, you need to read a lot on History.
SQ
I am reading.
Straight forward and simple. It is not that complicated like India.
Two people and two regions.
The whole world and India know what the population in 1948 was and now.
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MQ
14) About the Post Scripts (PS) I wrote:
SHAN, Those are English translation of two Sinhala proverbs. You have not understood the real meanings of those. FAIRPLAY will probably able to help you there.
SQ
Didn?t you get the message? I know what is proverb.
If any thing like that I will get advise from Fairplay/ Kural/Saintclair OK.
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MQ
PS: FYI: These 6 posts quote 340 words of your previous posts which is approximately 14%.
PS2: Some facts mentioned in these posts were extracted from various sources, further information can be provided if requested.
SQ
Meet again. Ok |
shan
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6 Sep 2005 18:58:02 GMT Report for Abuse
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Mucha and others
I had trouble writing the answers with out missing the topic. You may have to go back to Muchas posting if you have any difficulty to get the content and can read the answers. |
Mucha-linda
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7 Sep 2005 01:05:58 GMT Report for Abuse
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SHAN:
Thanks for the time and effort brother. I truly admire that.
And give me some time to respond (I need to go to the city to collect my pension:-)))).
I will be back ASAP.
Cheers.
-Muchalinda
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