 Return to LNP
This News Site:
Lanka Newspapers is the largest Sri Lanka News forum online. Thousands of Sri Lankans from around the world gather here daily to discuss current news events of Sri Lanka. Join Today!
|
|
|
Kilinochchi District Hospital gets India`s help
Full News Article
Gaja
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2471
Member Profile
|
27 Nov 2005 08:13:29 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Thank you Nada and Kulakottan for appreciating my 'spiritual' approach. I am materialistic too. But I try to limit that materialism well within my earned rights - so that I do not go up and down with others' opinions.
As for OldPuli, what can I say. I love him and he does uplift me. He is really innocent. Most of his work is Maya. I connect to the Truth he feels and I like him very much. I think of him as he described himself directly to me. This form is Maya anyway. So what does it matter whether he is girl or boy?
In terms of him teasing Nada - they have a love-hate relationship. Nada also tried to 'boss' him in the beginning - on the basis of medical knowledge. I guess OldPuli trimmed down some of your ego also Nada.
love
gaja |
Gaja
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2471
Member Profile
|
27 Nov 2005 08:17:30 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Thank you Maninder for the response.
You say 'The real difference between our thinking is that you see the SL conflict as a conflict between tamils and sinhalese, while some of us view it as a conflict between plural democracy and exclusive ideologies.'
Maninder you can afford to think in terms of pure theories but we cannot. Besides the more you think philosophically the less personal / individuals you need to have in your thinking and discussions. To a degree, you have grouped JVP, JHU and the LTTE together. Likewise it is important for you to appreciate that there is a parallel of the JVP influenced government amongst Tamils also. To the extent we work genuinely, we will continue to have that government which will help us realise self-governance during our life-time - perhaps in a shorter time than the Common Indian.
You say about Nehru's decision re Hindu extrimists 'Now India, after almost five decades, is reaping the rewards for that painful decision in terms economic boom, international respect and strengthened national integration. Pakistan is labelled as a failing state'
I agree that India is enjoying economic boom and international respect. But it is not due mainly to the decision made by Nehru and others. It is largely due to the spirituality of Indians which helps them pick the truth where there are no common principles. It's a kind of black-market / unofficial operation. India's judicial system is not as advanced as that of other countries. Hence the need for the spiritual path to realise happiness and peace. Indians have deep wisdom because of this path. The rest, including the justice system, are just the media through which they share this spirituality with others. It was so even during Gandhi's time. It has been like that as far back we can remember.
India's arrival in Vanni is an indicator that they recognize value in the Tigers. They just do not want to express it openly. That indicates ego. Indians in politics tend to think they are superior to the Sri Lankans. That is why they are missing out on our wisdom.
love
gaja
Edited By - Gaja - 27 Nov 2005 08:33:20 GMT |
nada
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1781
Member Profile
|
27 Nov 2005 09:04:42 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Hi Kulakottan,
It would have been easier for Gaja to penetrate all of us but penetrating WW or Rev Rathna may be quite difficult.
She may have to elevate herself to very greater heights to penetrate these men. In fact these two are used to penetrate others and that too without elevating themselves to any heights at all. They can penetrate any one who is a gullible and for the latter there is no serious shortage at all in SL.
So in a situation like this I do not know how far Gaja will be successful in penetrating these two. Let her try and it is going to be a challenge for her.
I personally know that she has reformed some really abusive, aggressive guys in this forum but these two guys under discussion are very seasoned, impenetrable guys and it is up to her spiritual powers.
By the way you said that some one is leaving the forum but it does not appear to be true and he/she is around still.
'Ithu oru thodar kathai'.
Nada |
Maninder
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 800
Member Profile
|
27 Nov 2005 09:51:12 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Gaja,
It is not a 'pure theory' that I am talking about. What I have talked about are the lessons India learnt painfully during the last five decades and prior to that.
The spiritual India violated human rights of masses, divided country or caste lines and invited forign countries to occuppy India. The spiritual India that you keep on refering was sick and was put to death on 1956 january 26, when India adopted her new constitution kicking 'spirituality' out of state matters for good.
The present emerging of India as a economic power while fully protecting individual liberties and subsequently earning international respect is a triumph of secularism and rationalism that was founded by Nehru.
Wasn't India's spiritual standard eveident in 2004, when Tamil nadu government put Shri Shankaracharya of kanchi, the highest guru of vedic Hinduism, into prison on the charges of murder and obstruction of justice? This would have been un thinkable two decades ago.
Isn't it a fact that the law enforcement agencies are waiting for concrete proof to make arrests in Puttaparthy and the people who run the so called Ashramam are now extremely careful in dealing with press and outsiders?
The view that is expressed by you about common man being wise because he is spiritual is a fantasy with no foundation. You presume that the 'common man' is incapable of forming a rational decision and underestimate his mental capabilities. This is a middle class syndrome.
Elections after election, politicians and political ideologies based spirituality was rejected by this common Indian. he knows where to draw the line and what is good for the country. Free and fair democratic process in India and its watchful independent judiciary make sure that his/her views are heard and acknowledged. A secular democary with full of check and balance is what working India, not the fraud swami enterprises and the spiritual fantasies that are colourfully illustrated in the victorian era literatures.
Your comments regarding India's judicial system being inferior to other countries is a factually uninformed perception. That is a long subject to discuss, which will not suit this forum. However let me say that Indian judiciary is independent and their verdicts have been refernce points in the courts of many countries, including US, that is based on British legal system.
Edited By - Maninder - 27 Nov 2005 09:52:35 GMT |
Kulakottan
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 852
Member Profile
|
27 Nov 2005 12:36:08 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Dear Maninder,
I wonder whether we both are running around circles as we are over and over again coming back to the same position and arguments.
Gaja has responded from very high spiritual & philosophical point of view. Let me respond from a very simplistic common man?s point of views, based on personal and community experience. I will use your own comments to drive our points:
We all agree that Sri Lanka will be a better place to the people
?SL will be a better place to the people who live in it and a good neighbour to india, if it has a secular and pluralistic democracy?.
There is no doubt about that. The difference is how far are we to even consider that and how do we survive to reach that goal. You will notice it is the tamils who are secular. It is the ?Sinhala Buddhist? religious fundamentalism that prevented a solution for a long time. You talk to the Sinhalese leaders on a personal level and they will also tell you so.
To me your recommendation sounds like telling someone who is starving & fighting for his life that:
?he should eat organic food to live a healthy life?.
Our views too was formed from ?lessons learned from our historical experience, so that the view will be far sighted and has more depth?
Isn?t it human nature to form views based on their own experiences ? personally and community as a whole?
In my view our problem a centuries old problem starting from Dutagemunu-Elara era and even the last King of Kandy who was betrayed by Sinhalese and the Maha Sangha because he was a Tamil.
You should also go back in our history as far back as the Donoughmore and Soulbury commissions. You should also review how the Tamils were cheated to accept the first post-independent constitution by offering Ministerial positions and asking them to trust the Sinhalese. You should also understand the number of agreements signed:
Bandaranaike ? Chelvanayagam pact
Dudley Senanayake agreement
District development Council
Finaly the ?Indo-Sri Lanka? agreement.
contd. |
Kulakottan
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 852
Member Profile
|
27 Nov 2005 12:37:08 GMT Report for Abuse
|
The former Chief Minister of NE Province, Mr Varataharaja Perumal who is also a Pro-indian politician many times admitted the failure of the provincial councils due the the reluctance of the Govt. devolve power to the provinces.
These are the things, which have driven the youngsters like tigeress19 to this situation. You can?t blame them for being so impatient.
We kept our faith in plural democracy for over 50 years before being forced into today?s situation. Personally I am beginning to think whether India too think like the GOSL sometime ago that our problem is only a ?terrorist? problem not an ethnic problem. Perhaps its both. We are saying that resolve the ethnic problem as a way of solving the terrorist problem. But you think its best to deal the other. We fear that will put our struggle in the backburner.
Let?s assume you are trying neutralize LTTE for valid reasons. Then on the same token you should act on JVP as well. On the other hand it is your own last High Commissioner in Sri Lanka who let down Ranil and helped SLFP & JVP to get together at the last election..
Your countries strength today has very little to do with your secular, plural democracy only.
It is a lot to do with your decentralized federal structure respecting the multi-ethnic & multicultural heritage, the education system, the population and the changing Global economic realities.
If your political system is the recipe for success then China too can claim that their one party centralized command economy is the recipe for their success.
Your democratic institutions flourished after seeing off your communal troubles. We are having communal troubles after trusting the plural democracy for more than 5 decades.
?Regarding the singalese society? - take off the minority votes from the 48% what is left is a very small portion of the Sinhalese society that has accepted the federal Structure. If you take the Urban votes from that there will be very little left.
Do you expect us place our future in there hand?
Even if Ranil had won, which I myself would have preferred, there is no guarantee that a just solution would have been implemented. There is no guarantee that Sinhala population would have approved his solution in the referendum.
?It is India's view that JVP, JHU and LTTE are sides of same coin?.
But still you feel the urgency in dealing with LTTE rather than the others. We believe it is because of your vested interest, in teaching a lesson to LTTE for that ?one issue?.
?They all want to create societies that will be obsessed with misplaced pride and ego based on religion, ethnicity or language?
It is your language based Federal States that is keeping your Union together as one proud country. Then why do you feel that we should not have it that way.
We have to come to a conclusion that we have to find our own solution rather than expecting others to look after us. That?s also after trusting the system for many decades.
Thank you. |
Maninder
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 800
Member Profile
|
27 Nov 2005 13:38:33 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Kulakkottan,
If we have agreed that a plural democratic SL is in everybody's interest, then we have to look for the options how we can achieve it.
Option 1: Rally behind Prabhakaran, who runs a terrorist organization asking to divide country on ethnic lines, assasinating civilians politicians whom he percieve as traitors or opponents, terrorizing the civil community with violant acts, extorting overseas tamils for funding the organization and recruitng children for combat duty by force.
Option 2: Build a civil movement inclusive of tamils and Singalese that is targetting to strengthen the democracy and civil debates using advancements in media, marketing and organizational management. You can even tolerate a parallel stream of armed activism in a professional and honourable manner that will not qualify anybody for war crimes indictment.
The option no:1 will not deliver you what you are looking for, though it is very tempting and easy to adopt it. It will give you a quick satisfaction of revenge and an illusion of equality. When it is all over, you will be left with nothing to show to the future generations. That is what history is teaching since world war 2.
Option 2 will be more painfull and need a lot of mental and physical hardwork, sophistication, control, nerve and determination. But it will bring you results slowly but surely.
Please don't tell me option 2 is not viable in SL. ANC campaign on similar lines in south Africa against a force that was far more evil and stronger than Singales Buddhist establishment succeeded with astounding results.
I also would like to clarify why india thinks LTTE more dangerous than JVP and JHU.
JVP and JHU are evil, but they are contesting elections. India has full confidence in democracy's power to take care of such forces as long as they subject themselves to free and fair democratic scruitiny. There is also strong and capable democratic forces in UNP and SLFP who are giving an alternatives to the people.
As opposed to this, LTTE doesn't tolerate altenative views among even tamils. It doesn't want to face elections. It doesn't even have internal democracy. Neither they respect international war conventiosn as a military unit.
There is no checks and balance in LTTE and with its ambition to acquire higher military capability, it is a regional security issue.
While JVP, JHU and LTTE have same ideology in different names, LTTE is far more ambitious, ruthless and secretive in its execution.
JVP and JHU will be taken care by the voter eventually. But LTTE will need a different approach.
I also want to say that there is a clear the distinction between LTTE and SL tamil issue in Indian policy makers mind. I can very well see that Indian relations with SL will be one that of not-so stright forward as long as tamils are not getting a fair deal there.
If LTTE drops demand for unelected goverment in NE, face elections and introduce democratic restructuring in its ranks, India policy planners will have no choice, but support LTTE, even without disarmament. Please consider that the forign and difense policies are formulated in India after immense debate where all types of arguments are made and heard.
Edited By - Maninder - 27 Nov 2005 13:56:27 GMT |
Kulakottan
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 852
Member Profile
|
27 Nov 2005 14:19:44 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Dear Maninder,
This is a never ending discussion and we should move along. Why don?t you consider a third option:
Introduce a Federal structure at least with the same authority as the Indian States. I can tell you that if that happens the LTTE themselves have to change. You have to be realistic.
Even the Northern Ireland process started with the Introduction of a political solution. Its still not over but the start is made.
You have to allow LTTE time to change from a military outfit to an administrative & democratic outfit. ISGA has to be the mechanism that would allow them time to transform themselves and prove to the electorate that they are a worthwhile outfit in a democratic environment. We srilankans ? Tamils or Sinhalese have to be disciplined to be successful.
The best balancing mechanism will be the close proximity to India. I have no illusions about a separate state. Don?t tell me that if India so wishes they can ensure no other separate state exists in Sri Lanka.
You have the resources and means to protect the sovereignty of little Sri Lanka if there is a just solution to the ethnic problem. GOSL and the Sinhala majority is only interested in solving their problem- LTTE.
The Sri Lankan society is so polarized now, it will be next to impossible for Tamils and Sinhalese to form a ?coherent? civil structure to fight any evil unless there is a miracle. Even Tsunami could not do it.
You have to live in Sri Lanka as a Tamil to see the outlook of Sinhalese now. I am one of those who had high hopes that we will see peace in Sri Lanka in our life time and the Sinhalese & Tamils can live together. I still believe that its possible but a solution has to be imposed either internally or externally. If its internal it can only be by force. I am talking from 45 years of experience living among Sinhalese.
Voters rejecting JVP/JHU would be a long process which will happen after our death. They are the people who voted CBK?s mother who promised to bring cheap rice even if it is from the moon. Recently they voted when MR promised fertilizer at Rs 350 when the world market price is more than Rs 900. |
Gaja
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2471
Member Profile
|
27 Nov 2005 20:35:40 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Thank you Nada for that analysis. Some have to be won through love and others through humility.
love
gaja |
Gaja
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2471
Member Profile
|
27 Nov 2005 21:13:36 GMT Report for Abuse
|
Thank you Maninder for the response.
You say 'What I have talked about are the lessons India learnt painfully during the last five decades and prior to that.'
If India had indeed learnt and learnt painfully, all it needs is the Political freedom to share its wisdom with others in similar pain. Since it does not, then it must mean that India did not actually experience much pain, or that the pain was not shared by POLITICIANS or that India is 'attached' to the material benefits of its pain that it is not able to rise to higher levels of ownership where mere association with India would help those in similar pain.
You say 'The present emerging of India as a economic power while fully protecting individual liberties and subsequently earning international respect is a triumph of secularism and rationalism that was founded by Nehru.'
Maninder, you may believe that India is an economic power that protects individual liberties. Not many Australians believe this. Do you know why? Because of their move away from religion to securlarism. They 'see' and believe. They 'relate' laterally and class themselves above Indians. The only area where they show higher respect for almost any Indian is for spiritualism.
It was necessary for the West to move consciously away from religion based education and governance because Westerners abused their religious positions, as Muslims are doing now. Given that Jesus was not born in America or England or in a 'Western' country , Christianity is an imported religion to most Westerners and Buddhism is to Sri Lankans.
The Hindu 'base' is natural to India. India is the mother of Hinduism. Indians therefore have the intuitive wisdom that is passed on from generation to generation - the same way Westerners have intuition in secularism.
Indians and Sri Lankans who invest in Western systems tend to see India and Sri Lanka through those eyes. This results in them losing the value of that intuitive wisdom.
Yesterday for example, I was telling my two little grand daughters the 'Mango' story about Ganesh and Muruga. They like listening to the stories - because they feel that our attention is on them. But after a while I realised that it was not very interesting and hence I said to the four year old that she was Ganesh and to the two year old that she was Muruga. The both looked excited about that.
Then I said that our home was the world. I said that the one who goes around the house gets the prize-mango. I then said that as the 'owner' of the house - someone intellectually driven (as depicted by Ganesh)would go around me and that would amount to going around the house.
I said that given that the 4 year old was Ganesh she would do that. I said the two year old on the other hand would get on the peacock and go around the house and because she would not get the mango that would keep her happy forever, she would establish her own empire. I then showed them the hilltop near our home - where my dear friend Dr. David Garlick of the University of New South Wales lies in peace. I said to my grand daughters that David was someone who tried to establish his independent business unit with the University of New South Wales. I said he was like Muruga / my two year old. I said but to be successful through that path, one must be ready to renounce material benefits in a system dominated by seniors / parents. In other words, one must be ready to start from zero base - even when it means that we forego benefits earned before that point of separation.
Youngsters including Tigers tend to be 'attached' to the benefits that their parents / seniors have control over. That becomes their undoing when they claim independence from their parents / seniors. This is what is giving the Tigers the Terrorism label also.
Indians seeking to help Sri Lankans must do so through their personal levels - through their wisdom at that level. As soon as I finished the story, my 4 year old grand daughter got up and went around me. I knew that the message had registered.
Maninder, like Kulakottan says, some of your theories do not apply to Sri Lankans. We are different to Indians at certain levels. Hence the level we choose is important in comparing India with Sri Lanka.
As for Kaanchi Chief Priest being sent to prison - I believe that he was not a genuine owner of that Peedam. The way there is spiritualism in secularism there is also materialism in religion. This Kaanchi Chief was driven by materialism. But there are enough followers of the his predecessors to keep the faith going. I am one such follower.
As for Putterparthi and your statements of 'waiting and watching' - they indicate your envy and no more.
If you genuinely believe that Sai Baba is evil, then how come the Indian Justice system is not able to send Him to prison - the way Romans sent Jesus to prison?
You have defeated your own argument Maninder. You cannot have it both ways. If India's Justice system is strong, then Sai Baba is NOT EVIL in the eyes of the Justice system. If Sai Baba is evil then the Indian Justice system is weak.
Wonder what Muchalinda has to say about this one?
love
gaja
Edited By - Gaja - 27 Nov 2005 21:52:05 GMT |
|
