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Kilinochchi District Hospital gets India`s help
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Maninder
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28 Nov 2005 07:33:10 GMT Report for Abuse
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Kulakkottan/nada,
SL Tamils have suffered in the hands of Singalese racists in SL since independence. That is a fact that India or Indians never disputed. Even the initial response to the problem SL tamils and Indians was same, which created a militant resistance movement.
The difference was/is on the way forward. India doesn't think taht seprating SL on ethnic lines is a viable solution for the problem. It is not in the interest of SL
tamils, SL and the region.
Almost half of of Singalese society today are ready to accept and accomodate the social and political aspiration of tamils in SL. This is evident from the 48% vote that RW got in the recent election on peace and federalism platform. The democratic party was ruined by Prabhakaran.
If the federal status in a united SL was the genuine aim of LTTE, it wouldn't have stopped people from voting in NE. An election of RW would have brought the federal state that LTTE is pretending to ask.
India has realized the reality of LTTE that it wouldn't stop at anything until it gets a ethnic exclusive eelam long back.
Any Indian illusion of a change in LTTE's thinking process due to the changed global political realities since 9/11- 2001 was put to death with the events in the recent elections.
A federal arrangement will be the final solution to ethnic problem in SL. But it would not happen the way LTTE wants it to happen, with an unelected goverment of five years. Or it would not happen until LTTE builds credibility with the international community. LTTE will need to introduce the democrcy in its ranks and it will need to start respecting democracy and free debates.
Since you brought the issue of Nepal, let me comment on it. In Nepal, the King has taken over the pwer after suspending the elected goverment and parliment with the support of Army. The Army is fighting insurgency of Maoists in the rural areas.
India wants the king to return the power to the elected goverment, while it doesn't want Maoists to defeat the royal army and take control nepal. Like in SL, India is executing a delicate policy in Nepal; That is pressurizing the King to return to the democracy, while keeping the lifeline to royal army on their fight against Maoists.
Like in SL, India is hated by non-democratic forces on both sides in Nepal. But India has no option, but to self-defend itself before the terror strikes home.
Gaja,
In my experience in different countries including Australia, with policy planners, academics and scientists and other professionals, it is the Indian democracy, secularism, pluralism, transparent governance and independent judiciary that earn India the international respect. Off-course, you and I may have different spheres of interaction.
In Indian life in the last five decades the spiritualism is just one of the many side shows. My point on kanchi shankaracharya's arrest was to prove just this point. My comments on Puttaparthy is not out of envy. The recently brodcasted program in bbc 'the secret swami' would have given you some information on this.
Edited By - Maninder - 28 Nov 2005 07:37:24 GMT |
nada
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28 Nov 2005 08:32:52 GMT Report for Abuse
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Dear Maninda,
I am afraid that again you have totally failed to grasp the local reality.
Before going into that, what do you mean when you said that SL cannot be divided on ethnic lines, you meant a separate state?
Even if we assume that it is a separate state how is it going to affect the well being of the Tamils? I could understand the SL' well being, one think they will lose a portion of the land which they claim to be theirs. More importantly perhaps they may be too unhappy to watch a small nation in the immediate neighbourhood flourishing within a short time of its birth.
Singapore though divided without any blood letting, still it is a point of issue for Malaysia and is obviously jealous about its progress.
Again comes the Indian factor, when you subtly said 'the region' obviously it meant India. Why can't we decide our own destiny, and are we to always get India's permission before doing any thing that is good for us. Do you think that Eelam Tamils would send scud or cruise missiles into India? India today is bogged down in its own complex, she (he) is trying to be the regional boss and police woman (man) like the US. But the culture, heritage, religion and plurality it is boasting of and the humble dress the Indian leaders wear defeat the whole concept.
Regarding the recent elections, of the 48% a significant portion of votes were from the Tamils and Muslims. When you take that out it will be around 30% the most. My dear friend, the most amateurish statement you made was that had rest of the Tamils voted for Ranil he would have brought a Federal solution to the Tamils!
It is the greatest fantasy I have ever heard and do you really meant that way? My friend, I will tell you one thing, a mere 10 Buddhist priest on the street is more than enough to even over ride Ranil's 80% votes. One priest is more important than 100000 Tamils dying of bombing or starvation.
Chandrika got around 54% in 1994 and what did she achieve even though full mandate was given to her on the same issue. She emerged as the angel of peace and ended up as the angel of death. For the Sinhalese suppressing the Tamils is much more important than salvaging the country from total ruination. Had you followed this forum alone, it would have enlightened you sufficiently of the ground situation and reality.
One wrote 'if Ranil comes to power and try to give anything to Tamils we will start another uprising, insurrection, strikes and so on until we defeat Ponnya Ranil. Haven't you read the gravest insults thrown at him here even by the educated Sinhala elite who perceived Ranil as a Tamil sympathiser.
contd...... |
nada
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28 Nov 2005 09:08:34 GMT Report for Abuse
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Maninda ......
Over the decades Sri Lankan life has become exclusively centered round anti-Tamil feelings. Politics has nothing other than oppressing the Tamils. So in a scenario like this for you to say very confidently that had Ranil been elected would have offered a Federal Solution is very amusing in deed. For you it is as simple as that.
This is where my suspicion about your authenticity. Your exclusive aim is to put the blame on the LTTE, the standard strategy of course, and if not for the LTTE there would have been a federal solution on a platter. So LTTE deliberately blocked a Federal Solution which was just knocking at the door step!
So you feel that unless you destroy LTTE there is no salvation to the Tamils? But unfortunately 99% of SL Tamils feel the other way round. They feel that if not for the LTTE the Tamils would have attained emancipation in the hands of the Sinhala military and the Thugs and the Tamil problem would have been solved once and for all.
What you are saying, in no way different to other racists, providing excuses as to why the Tamil issue is not resolved. I would not expect an argument of this nature from an academic, a political analysts or a person interested in political realities, especially when you are not an immediate party to the conflict.
Naturally then the question arises as to the motive of your argument? You want me to believe that you are so out dated on these issues or ignorant of these hard realities. I am in fact totally amazed as to the crux of your argument.
Is it your interest to find a just solution to the suffering Tamils in Sri lanka or findings ways and means of undermining the LTTE which the majority Tamils feels is equal to destroying their survival?
Or is it a way of substituting actors who will be prepared to say yes sir..yes sir to Indian policy makers whose exclusive interest is to achieve their goal.
Sorry if I am harsh Nadesan |
Maninder
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28 Nov 2005 09:17:15 GMT Report for Abuse
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Nada,
One would never know whether or not it was a fantasy that RW would have brought federalism and peace in SL, if he had won the election, thanks to Prabhakaran.
All we know is that he openly asked for vote for peace and federalism and he got tacit support of votes from 30% (I will stick with your figure for the sake of argument) of the singalese population. He was supported also by Muslims, who is another factor in the equation.
He was a unifier of a divided country and was the best bet for the future of tamil, singalese and muslim Sri Lankans.
Instead of him, Prabhakaran, JVP and JHU chose MR, albeit on their own ways.
Edited By - Maninder - 28 Nov 2005 09:19:17 GMT |
Kulakottan
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28 Nov 2005 09:45:29 GMT Report for Abuse
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Dear Maninder,
Just a little information about the voting patterns in Sri Lanka,
1. The 30% is the traditional die-hard UNP vote bank which would always vote for UNP irrespective of whether they are voting for Unitary or Federalism.
When Ranil put the federalism on a referendum it will not be a voting between UNP & SLFP.
Only the JVP & JHU 'No' campaign that will violently campaign against Federalism. 'Yes' campaign will not spend any money as they would not consider that as their victory..
Unless India can guarantee that you will employ some 'arm twisting'.
2. The Muslims do not vote for policy, they vote for the local politician and again no Muslim politician will enthusiastically campaign unless Al-Qaeda tell them to do so.
Result : We will be in the middle of no where.
However, I should admit that I was one those who wish that Ranil won and introduced Federalism.
I am also someone who after going to the polling booth found that my whole family's name had been deletaed.
I am not so sure now after hearing what Navin Dissanayake and Milinda Morogoda has said..
Edited By - Kulakottan - 28 Nov 2005 09:48:49 GMT |
Maninder
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28 Nov 2005 10:05:18 GMT Report for Abuse
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Nada,
India wouldn't be against a federal solution in SL, as long as it is created through a fair democratic process of elections. Right now LTTE, lead by Prabhakaran has no democratic credibility and he is seeking to get democratic legitimacy through back door. We can't believe him for what he says.
India is not alone in this position. It?s got US and UK for the company.
While India is not unduly worried about a missile attack from LTTE, it will not forget the way Rajiv was murdered during a general election and the way LTTE faked innocence after the incidence. Indian intelligence agencies are convinced that many more Indian politicians and personalities are on LTTE hit list. Tamil Nadu CM Jayalaitha, Subrahmaniam swami and Ram of Hindu newspaper are examples.
India will not be able to risk having a Prabhakaran led dispensation in its southern border due to latter?s ideology and modus operandi.
Also, India doesn't think, creating a country on ethnic lines under a dictator will be in the interest of SL Tamils.
Don't worry about being harsh in you arguments. I have never taken it personally. Besides, harshness of opposition was never ever a problem for me.
But it could be a lot more helpful to your cause if you could be more objective and less emotional in your thought process. But off-course that is a very labour oriented process. |
tigeress19
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28 Nov 2005 17:25:23 GMT Report for Abuse
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Maninder
i had a close look at your conversation between ,gaja,nada and kulakottan.I'm really pleased with their presentation except yours.you did not answer them the way their question was placed or your answer was invalid to this present day.
1)you seems to understand that the Tamils do have a noble reason to fight for their fundamental rights.
am i correct here?
2)ltte was created to fight for Tamils fundamental rights ,by Indians?
am i correct here?
3)now after the 'hero's day speech' there is a time frame was given to the gosl by our thalaivar to come up with a solution which is acceptable by the Tamils.(a year time or before the next hero's day)
i)if there is no political solution reached by then we Tamils will declare UDI.
ii)what will be your reaction as a Indian after declaring UDI?
iii)if you do not agree with UDI ,then are you trying to say,you Indians do not want to end the conflict by political terms with gosl either. then will you be prepared to give us the time frame?
please answer all those question, as much as possible,
i understand it is a very time consuming task.try to jiggle between your T,WARDEN job. :)) |
Gaja
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28 Nov 2005 21:35:12 GMT Report for Abuse
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Thank you Maninder for the response.
Yes, we do interact with different parts of Western Community, including Australia. As an Australian I bring you the inner thinking of Common Australians. What you have access to is the words of our politicians, which you choose to interpret to your advantage - as you should. But at the end of the day, what matters is the Truth we know and not our rights and wrongs. If those rights and wrongs do not lead us to the Truth, they have distracted us from our fulfillment in life.
India also must be showing through its politicians, including yourself, only what it wants others to see. To know and realise, the receivers must do the base work - just like you have done with some parts of Sri Lankan ethnic issue. Eventually, whether you take the benefits into the next phase of your life - which includes retirement - depends on how much wisdom you have gained. There are no rights and wrongs with wisdom.
Once you have wisdom you own that issue even though you may not be physically recognized as a Sri Lankan. In fact you are more of a Sri Lankan than many Sri Lankans I know of.
But this has also taken you away from the religious / spiritual path that India has heavily invested in. When you travel towards Truth through the secular path, that is also spiritual path. We must be able to realise Truth when we find it without going in search of our RIGHTS and other People's WRONGS.
Kaanchi Chief Priest is a poor example of spiritualism. You could have chosen Subash Chandra Bose instead.
How come you rely on the BBC's version of an Indian in preference to All India Radio's or a fellow Indian - Gajalakshmi?
Your ownership of spiritual / religious issues would get stronger once you pause to realise Truth on the way to Political freedom.
You say to Nada 'India wouldn't be against a federal solution in SL, as long as it is created through a fair democratic process of elections. Right now LTTE, lead by Prabhakaran has no democratic credibility and he is seeking to get democratic legitimacy through back door. We can't believe him for what he says'
India interferes when it comes in at the last minute without the partnership of Sri Lankan victims. Involvement is necessary to feel the ownership. India and Britain do not have the moral right to participate in the Peace negotiations without participating in the primary experience - directly as we did or through partnership with the victims who took refuge in their countries. This would also help you connect to the Truth - that it is not just the LTTE that seeks autonomy. But make sure you pick the deepest victim and not the smartest victim in your country. Deepest victim is one who has lost and/or sacrificed earned benefits and opportunities. This is a greater loss than physical death.
Prabaharan and the LTTE are not claiming democratic rights. They are claiming their share of the Benefits for the work done and sacrifices made through the avenue they recognised.
Tamils as a group are claiming the right to use Equal Opportunity system - as they do not want to be supervised by anybody - including the LTTE. Tamils want to manage their own affairs - and therefore do not want any interference in their respective areas of expertise. Tamils are happy to include those who seek to involve, work / sacrifice and own.
love
gaja
Edited By - Gaja - 28 Nov 2005 22:10:10 GMT |
Gaja
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28 Nov 2005 22:19:56 GMT Report for Abuse
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Nada,
I refer to your statement about Ranil and Federalism. Ranil may or may not have delivered federalism. In fact has anyone actually done the work to know how Federalism will work in Sri Lanka and how it will be perceived by the Common Sri Lankan Tamil and the Common Sri Lankan Sinhalese?
With the Common citizen, you need to talk as closely as possible to the 'experience'. It's like a business plan / Budget. Only one that is close to actual / reality would work through the people. The rest is only for those in power including the LTTE.
Ranil I believe would have progressed towards an acceptable agreement. The solution must flow through the commoners on both sides.
love
gaja |
nada
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28 Nov 2005 23:20:10 GMT Report for Abuse
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Dear Maninda,
You talk too confidently of a federal solution without any hint of it anywhere in the political scene.
Of course if it becomes a reality, majority of Tamils would want the LTTE to be in power until such time there is an election.
We talk of democracy too much but as far as the Tamils in this country are concerned democracy is only a mockery. Democracy totally failed as far as Tamils are concerned and this so-called democracy had taken away even the little bit of privileges the Tamils enjoyed.
Again it is the ground situation and reality rather than theory. Ahimsa, parliamentary democracy, grass root level democracy and many more were used to subjugate the Tamils with ease. What proved contructive was unfortunately violence, which to great extent countered the state sponsored violence.
I could recall what Prof.GL.Peries some years ago 'if democracy does not deliver the right things to people then people will resort to various forms of self help'. For the Tamils the self help was violence.
This is where LTTE moved in and to a very great extent proved to be right though at a terrible cost. But it was a life and death situation.
If there is a need to replace the LTTE then it is in the hands of the Tamils. India or Sri Lanka just cannot push in people who played no role at all in this struggle except they are their moth pieces or stooges. If so then it is an attempt to put the clock back once again.
As it stands for the majority Tamils LTTE is the leader but on later occasion it could be tested but not at the beginning.
Calling LTTE as a dictator too lacks substance. It was the only course of action it could have taken if it's intention was to achieve some thing substantial. Being a Tamil I know better about Tamils than perhaps you. Democracy too is subjective and not absolute.
We have the world's largest democracy in our neighbourhood. But what percentage of the people objectively select a government. How many aware of the policies or know even their candidates. How many are capable of forming an informed opinion about their choices.
Once real democracy comes to Tamils the scene will certainly change. 'No solution because there is a dictator', is only an excuse. One has to do things from a point of strength and I am sure you would not disagree. Will India dump all its nuclear and other weapons and then try to resolve Kashmir issue with Pakistan?
We cannot decide our destiny based on Jayalalitha or Subramnaiya Swamy who have their own personal reasons. All know too well about Jayalalitha's record and how Democratic she is. She is not even a Tamil to understand the Tamil aspiration. May be it explains Indian plurality but we are too far from there at the moment.
So as it stands only LTTE could take over if there is an opportunity and the world should understand that if they are really keen in understanding the reality and to arrive at a solution.
Regards Nada |
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